Episode Transcript
[00:00:01] Speaker A: Hello. Welcome to the money adjustment. I'm your host, Doctor Mark Kramer, DC. I am a chiropractor who loves investing and trading. Are you interested in what's moving markets and your money? Great part. Let's get started. Today's focus with my special guest, which, who I will introduce in just a moment, is going to be more on the investing side versus the trading side. So as an investor, I'm looking at holding positions longer term in companies. In this particular episode, I'm going to be talking with a founder who has been an entrepreneur for over two decades. He successfully founded a company and then exited the company with multiple millions of dollars, which makes for a nice kind of segue into getting excited about the conversation we're about to have. My guess is Chris Forte and just a little bit of background here because I've done another interview with Chris, but I have not posted it yet. So to the larger audience, you haven't seen the interview that I did with Chris before, but a background on mine and Chris's relationship is that we both practice yoga. So that's the foundation for our relationship. Now, we both started, I shouldn't say started, but we both practiced at the center for Yoga, which was founded by Johnny Kess back in the way. We were practicing there originally. And I don't even know if we knew of each other back then, but we started practicing at another studio that evolved from center for yoga, and that's community yoga studio. And that's there where I became aware of Chris. I've just seen him practicing, and then one day he came up to me and he offered me a y bar, and I had never had one before. And he's like, just check it out. It'll help you with your energy, and it'll give you the sustained energy over time. And it's a clean product. I started, I had the first ybar. I'm like, oh, that's pretty good. And there was this consistency over time with Chris where he would every few weeks give me a y bar, and not just to me. He would provide it for our community through that. I'm sure a lot of things built off of there, because I have been a loyal customer now for years. I love the product. I use it regularly. This isn't about the product ybar. This is actually going to be about Chris's entrepreneurial journey from a company he started before, and I'm going to let him speak on that company. We'll start there, and then we'll transition into the Weibar. So that's a big build up. Without any further ado, I'd like to introduce you to my special guest, Chris Forte. And Chris, just say hello to everybody.
[00:02:38] Speaker B: Hello, everybody.
[00:02:40] Speaker A: All right, thanks for having me. Yeah, I'm so happy to have you here. I really loved our conversation the last time, and I'm looking forward to this conversation as well. So the working title is from zero to a million. So if you're a founder and you're just getting started, I want to have Chris share his story about how he went from, from zero to over a million.
[00:03:03] Speaker B: Yeah.
And Mark, that, is that, is that from like, just taking a business from zero to a million in revenue, or is that just taking your, your net worth from zero to a million or.
[00:03:16] Speaker A: Now, that is a great question. That's a good differentiator. So I'm thinking about it in terms of revenue. So let's say annual revenue. Yeah. So give it context. I appreciate that clarification. That's a good one.
[00:03:27] Speaker B: Have in your mind because sometimes as an entrepreneur in your own company that are kind of sometimes tied together a little bit, but sure, no, thanks for an introduction. So my career goes back, you know, when I got out of, when I graduated college in 92, my first job was in the beginning of 93, and it was with the telecom company called Metromedia. Now, no longer this type of stuff exists, but back then, what that company did would go into businesses and sell them long distance.
You know, back then, they're the big three carriers were at and T, MCI and Sprint. And this is, we're going back to the nineties. But, you know, phone bills were, you know, a big expense for companies.
And so this company was a smaller company on the rise as an alternative to at and T and MCI and Sprint. And so I started off as a salesperson there and over three years worked myself up ranks one of the top sales reps in my region, and, you know, the typical ladder. And I just would think with any, with any industry, when you're in sales, you can go be a sales manager, sales director, regional sales, all that stuff. And none of that really, you know, none of that really resonated with me. I like being in sales. I like making money. I like controlling my freedom. And I was getting maxed out. And another person in the company said, hey, Chris, I'm going to be starting my own company. Would you want to join? And so that's what happened. And we started a company called Globalcom Communications. And it was with this person brought me on board, and I knew another individual, another company. So there were three of us, and so we started that company, I think it was sometime in 96 or three years later, and really built that from ground up. And again, all it was at that time was going into businesses. And back then, you could cold call, so you could actually go in and, you know, say, hello, my name is Chris. I'm with global conference communications.
Who is the person in your organization that makes the, you know, the decisions on your phone bill? So that was really the sales pitch. And, you know, nine times out of ten, no problem, the person would say, oh, it's so and so. They give us a card or phone number. Sometimes you had the opportunity sit down right then with the person. So that was kind of like back then, the sales process. And so really, in the beginning, it was just building a base of clients and getting into the point of us three selling, running the company, this and the other. And just through straight hustle, we were able to get that $2 million in revenue and just. Just the three of us. And then, you know, can I stop.
[00:06:32] Speaker A: You for 1 second before you. Or when you got to that 2 million. So you said you started this company in 1996, correct?
[00:06:38] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:06:39] Speaker A: Or you get the two of you were founders, you and your partner?
[00:06:43] Speaker B: Yes, three of us have had three. Really?
[00:06:45] Speaker A: Three, but, yeah, three. So you and your two partners founded the company in 1996?
[00:06:52] Speaker B: Yep.
[00:06:53] Speaker A: And then you did a lot of hustling. Like you said, in the beginning, it's just sales and calling and getting in front of the decision maker. And then you've said you got to 2 million in revenue.
[00:07:04] Speaker B: I think it was a million. I was back to. I was saying we got that. That's how we got to our first million between us three, basically.
[00:07:10] Speaker A: So you got to your first million. So from 1996, before you hit your first million in revenue, what was that?
[00:07:19] Speaker B: Yeah, that's good. Looking back, I can't recall, but it was pretty quickly. I would say by 98, maybe a couple of years. Yeah, it was quick. It was quick compared to the industry I'm in now. But it was quick because back then, our targets were small to medium sized businesses. Kind of. Give me an idea. An average phone bill would be $500 to $1,000, give or take, but then you would land some bigger whales that are doing anywhere from $5000 to $20,000. So if my math's correct, you get, like 500 customers on your system. I think between that 500, that was like a million bucks right there.
[00:08:02] Speaker A: What was your unique selling proposition?
[00:08:04] Speaker B: You know, back then, keep in mind, it was just at and T and MCI and Sprint, and those were your choices. That was basically it. There was no customer service or interaction.
The main thing back then, there was big time savings. So we would come in and save easily 2020, 5% off their current phone bill. But more importantly, now you have a contact. I am your contact. I'm your rep. I care about your business.
You've just been used to at and TMCI operators, people you don't know just signing up. But as, as that was happening, we were this metromedian global comm. There were a lot of companies doing that. So then it was really like, yeah, the Wild, Wild West. I kind of compared to like the mortgage industry. Why do you go to one mortgage broker versus the other mortgage broker when you could save a quarter percent? In the end of the day, I think someone buys from you or whatever because they trust you and, you know, even if they're paying a little bit more. So that's kind of what we were doing back then, is we're an alternative and we're going to give you better.
[00:09:08] Speaker A: Service, and that's the advantage. It's interesting you brought up a few there a few things there. One of the things I think about when you said there's a lot of competitors, the term that comes to mind is commoditization.
[00:09:20] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:09:21] Speaker A: So it sounds like a commodity. So when something's a commodity, yes. It's more challenging to differentiate yourself as to why someone should come to you. I think about this for my own profession as a chiropractor. Chiropractic to a certain degree is a commodity, even though people wanted the best chiropractor, the best chiropractor. But ultimately, you're going to an individual that cares about your health, that wants to see you physically change in some way. And so it's a way to differentiate yourself when there's a large pool of people that you're competing with. I find that very interesting. You started to say it took about two years to get to that million dollars in revenue, and you were offering a personalized phone service at a discounted rate. So it was appealing both financially and people had to like you to want to do business with you.
[00:10:13] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:10:14] Speaker A: So because you alluded to the other company, which is actually what brought us together, let's fast forward from the first million to the exit.
[00:10:23] Speaker B: Yeah, it was a big jump. The company in 96, and we exited in 2008. So during that time, we reinvested the company, we got investors, we built the company up. I specifically remember really these three milestones. We went from 1 million. Now you got to know there was 2 million, 3 million, but I remember 1 million to 7 million, 7 million. Then over a few years to 30 million. Then a few years, there was another jump to about 50 million. And that's when we were starting to capping out. And there was not really too much more growth in revenue for about a few more years. And that's when the decision was to sell the company and we sold it when I think our revenue is right around 55, 56 million. So finally exited it in 2008 for $58 million.
[00:11:30] Speaker A: For 58 million. So I don't know if this is too personal a question or not, but. But if you're selling your company for a 58 million.
[00:11:37] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:11:38] Speaker A: What. Yeah. What are you walking. You're like, what do you actually walking away?
[00:11:42] Speaker B: Yeah. So, you know, we. As I mentioned, we had a lot of investors, partners, we had debt, we had all this stuff. But I.
[00:11:50] Speaker A: You don't have to go into exact numbers.
[00:11:52] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:11:53] Speaker A: But just to give a sense. So you're getting a percentage of the 58 million. You're not walking away with $58 million, right?
[00:11:59] Speaker B: No, I walked away and say, maybe we'll save you anywhere. Right around maybe 10% of that.
[00:12:05] Speaker A: Okay, so that's pretty deep. That's, that's. That's a nice amount to exit from.
[00:12:10] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:12:11] Speaker A: And actually, I'm going to use this segue because this was something I was thinking in my mind before I came into this call with you, because I've been doing other calls with small business, mid sized businesses and small business owners of different fields. Like, one was in AI consulting and the other one does a skincare line. I am working with my spouse to eventually start her own business. She's doing some very interesting things in hormone replacement, but I'm not committed yet to anything, which is where I think it's going to get interesting with your next venture. Because when I. I've heard you tell this story a few times, too, and I still try to, like, I'm still processing it in my mind where you were, you were headed down one route, and I'll kind of let you go into that, as much detail as you want, and then you veer, you. You found another opportunity. So I kind of feel this is where I want to relate to you and maybe any audience members that are out there that are kind of in that transition zone of, like, all right, I've either successfully exited or I kind of have some experience of what a little bit of wealth feels like. So now I'm in this transitional period where it's like my next venture, there's a dollar amount to everything. We just, we live in a capitalist society. This is America. There's, you know, we just think in dollars a lot of, especially if you're entrepreneurial, business oriented, or investment oriented. But before you get to the dollar, there has to be some certain level of conviction in what you're doing and some kind of connection to why you're taking the next moves that you're taking. So why don't you walk through that process a little bit from transitioning from some, from getting this nice influx of money, maybe even if you want to reflect for a second on what that felt like, to have that all of a sudden be in your bank account and then thinking about your next moves.
[00:14:00] Speaker B: Yeah. So, as I mentioned, and we're here in Michigan in 2008. So, you know, it was an interesting time. So even though I had this influx of money coming in, what I was doing over the last four to five years here is buying a lot of real estate. So I had this influx of money coming in. But, you know, I had x amount of million dollar, you know, multi, multi million. You know, I had maybe $20 million of real estate in my portfolio that was worth about 8 million or 7 million when the automobile and the mortgage crisis, all that stuff was happening. So.
So I got whacked there like other people not making.
[00:14:43] Speaker A: Absolutely.
[00:14:44] Speaker B: So. But, so that windfall, though. So I did. Unfortunately, when I look back, there wasn't really a celebration because I was dealing with all this mess. And, you know, I was just grateful I had that influx of cash to weather that, clean that up in my life that took several years to clean up.
So now we're in, I don't know, maybe the 2010 2011 timeframe. I started two other businesses, two to three year stints in both, invested a lot of money in both, and was never able to take it to the next level. I had to shut those business downs.
That's around 2014. As that's happening, I'm going through a divorce. A lot of stuff is going on in my life.
Not the way you go, not the way you would want it, and no.
[00:15:37] Speaker A: Before you go on, I want to, because I. When I named the podcast the money adjustment, and I've been. I'm continually. The money adjustment for me is a working definition, and I'm trying to figure out exactly what I'm trying to say. And it's. When you're. When I hear your story, it's like, that's when the money adjustment comes into my mind, because for some people, they hear, oh, I've got this influx. This guy just got, you know, not even you, but anybody. Elon Musk is a multi billionaire. Elon Musk got all this money. And so from a certain vantage point, we see these wealthy people, or people that have larger sums of money than maybe we appreciate in our own lives. And then there's the sense of like, okay, they got their money, and life is peaches and roses, which it's obviously not. You can just open the news any single day and see any wealthy entrepreneur, business person. Like Zuckerberg's wealth sometimes fluctuates billions of dollars in a day, depending on the stock performance.
So, like, the money adjustment in a broader context for the people listening, and money is never a static proposition. So whenever you get to some level, there's always some kind of dynamic that you have to adjust to. So you had a large influx of cash, but you're also adjusting to real estate and other businesses that you're trying to make work. And for me, as an investor, it's like. And a trader, it's like, I take trades, and some trades are profitable and some trades are not. And so it's really kind of enduring the entirety of an endeavor versus just like, I'm going to do this one thing, it's going to make me rich, and then I'm going to go retire and on an island and drink Manhattan.
[00:17:19] Speaker B: Or whatever it is we've been sold at, haven't we, over the years? Yeah, absolutely. Right? Yeah.
[00:17:26] Speaker A: When I have these conversations with people like you, that's one of the broader messages that I want to get out is like, regardless of your dollar amount that you're looking at, we're all trying to make some kind of adjustment with money. So I felt like what you were saying with regards to the business, there was these transitions. You had this one very successful business that you were able to exit successfully, and then you had a couple other businesses that didn't work out that we're not even going to talk about now. We're getting closer to modern times in terms of what you're doing now.
[00:17:55] Speaker B: Right?
[00:17:56] Speaker A: So why don't we pick up off of.
[00:17:57] Speaker B: Yeah, so, yo, guys, very big part of my life, and I wrote a book, the spiritual tools for living a purposeful life called the Humble Warrior. And that was kind of like a place where I wrote that book. And yoga was a big part of my life for three years as I was figuring out what would I do next, and that's when I met the crater of the y bar. Chef J, across from our yoga studio. Center for yoga on a winter day. And I was just intrigued. It was just him and I in that be well across the street. He was selling the bars. It wasn't even a y bar yet. It was in clear packaging. And why I was so intrigued. Number one is out. Number one, I'm a bar eater, and because of my yoga practice, I changed my diet, you know, and nutrition over the years. And I wasn't. I hadn't had a bar in a few years, so I was very intrigued. Just on the bar itself. And I asked him about the bar. He told me about the ingredients. I was like, wow, that's very clean. I tasted it. I was like, wow, this is great. And him and I took a walk in a blizzard right after that. I kind of heard his story, how he was just trying to get this thing off the ground, and he was just starting. And I said, hmm, let me think about it. And I thought about it overnight. 24 hours later, went out, sat down with him, his fiance, and I flat out asked him, what do you want to do with this? I like to make it as big as Clif bar someday. And I said, wow, that's, you know, lofty goals, you know, I tell you, I've had all these bars. This is the best I've ever had to.
I'd like to partner with you it partner with you on it. And we shook hands, and we said, why not? That's one of the many reasons. Name ibars. But before Mark. Before I even go into that, I.
[00:19:39] Speaker A: Didn'T even know that. Yeah, the why not? Yeah, I didn't even know. I learned something new. Yeah, I've heard versions of the story a few different times, but I'm always picking up something new that's interesting.
[00:19:50] Speaker B: And, you know, based on my. All my business experiences, to me, this was very not. Not being in this industry. CPG, consumer packaged goods. It seemed pretty straightforward. You make a bar, you sell it, you know, what have you. So what I did is I just did my own due diligence. I looked at every bar company, I think, within the last 20 years, you know, the ones that made it, the ones that didn't.
And again, my background is, I'll go into a business, build it up, and either have someone else run it or sell it. That's always been my background. So my background was, like, at that time, which was 2018, how can we take this company from zero to 100 million? That was kind of, you know, like a goal and kind of broke it down. And I was like, that's not. That would take a lot, but how, how about 10 million? What would it take to get it to 10 million? So build out a business plan. Did that. And we went to work and same thing, like global, but which is different was that I was out there selling it, making the bars, selling it, but it was a bar you sell for a few bucks, you need to sell a lot of bars. So real quickly getting $2 million. And when I learn in consumer packaged goods, that seems to be like a big measure, Mark, but it takes years to get there for a lot. For a lot. Once in a while you'll hear someone who got $2 million in a few years, but that's not the norm in this business. And I think that was kind of like, oh, that's kind of like, wow, this is going to be. It's going to be a long haul. We got to get an anchor customer. So that's what we did. So our whole.
[00:21:32] Speaker A: Oh, sorry, an anchor customer, did you say?
[00:21:34] Speaker B: Yeah, it brings in a lot of revenue. So.
[00:21:37] Speaker A: Okay, anchor customer.
[00:21:39] Speaker B: Yeah. So, for example, going to grocery store to grow. So Costco will be considered as an anchor.
[00:21:43] Speaker A: Exactly. Okay.
[00:21:44] Speaker B: Someone like that. Someone that's bringing a lot of revenue right away.
[00:21:48] Speaker A: Whole foods.
[00:21:50] Speaker B: Whole foods. If you got all of them, you know, if you got all of them. Ah. If you're not just, not just like ten locations, 50 locations, you got. All right.
[00:21:58] Speaker A: And what about Amazon? Just like a small divergence here.
[00:22:02] Speaker B: Um, that, yeah, well, that could be a major anchor. Um, but. Okay, you know, but that's a whole animal in itself. And the money that's invested to get that up and going and what have you.
[00:22:13] Speaker A: So we took, it's more capital intensive for Amazon versus like Costco. You're still working at Costco. That's a larger, that's a bigger whale in a sense.
[00:22:25] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, it's all capital intensive across the board because a lot of it is. You have to make the product first. See, here's the difference between global common and why bars big thing is you're getting paid day one because they're over your network.
And notice there's no cash la, you already have a network. So, you know, in consumer packaged goods, you're buying these ingredients, you're making all this, you're delivering it and you're getting paid 30 days later. So you have this constant, like, cash flow game you're dealing with.
[00:23:02] Speaker A: Was that a real learning curve for you in terms of making that adjustment? Because it's not like I'm hearing you say this, and it's like, a lot of times we enter into a new venture and we have an idea of what it's going to be, and then all of a sudden, we're, like, awakened, like, wow. That is not how I imagined.
It's always harder and more capital intensive in terms of time and money.
[00:23:22] Speaker B: This is what, this was the big aha. I've learned in the CPG business, at least in my experience with this, is, you hear the quote, sales cures everything.
[00:23:35] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely.
[00:23:36] Speaker B: Well, not in. Not necessarily in this case, because you could be selling a lot. You could be doing a lot. You could have one big customer not pay you on time. I mean, there's a lot of things, and we've made those mistakes along the way, and I've learned through that process. But to kind of go back to kind of where we're going with is, this is 2018, where we get. We land a anchor customer, which is lifetime fitness. We roll out to all 150 locations, and our game plan is to build around those lifetime fitnesses. That's our model. We're going to build. We're going to build around those lifetime fitness. Now, tie it back to the yoga. Yoga, you know, lifetime fitness center for yoga. So my plan was to do what I did at community yoga that you saw me do at Cys is go to all these lifetimes and do yoga and pass out the bars of. That was the whole plan. That plan. They placed their PO order a month before COVID hits. So, you know, and again, you got to roll with the punches. We all. We all dealt with that, but you can see from our business, that was such a big pinnacle because everything we laid out, we were doing.
And then for that to just go push and. And to kind of have to retool from that. And so, so, you know, and we're keep plugging away, and, you know, so we had to retool how to get through Covid, how to get past. Now that we just said, you know.
[00:25:04] Speaker A: What you have successfully done.
[00:25:07] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:25:07] Speaker A: You have successfully weathered that storm. You guys are still around. The bars are still selling.
[00:25:12] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:25:12] Speaker A: You're still. The company is still growing.
[00:25:14] Speaker B: Yep. Yep. And, you know, so we just had to retool and say, okay, we have to kind of button up and just be this little, what I'll call a little small, successful business in Michigan and retool it. Lifetime's not an option anymore. So let's get in every grocery store we can in Michigan. Let's get into the whole foods in Michigan. Let's get into Kroger's in Michigan. Let's get into Costco, which we're working on in Michigan. Get in all those Michigan locations. Let's show that the bar moves in those locations, and then we can roll out nationwide with these chains. And then it's very real. Then it's very realistic in quick form to get to that 10 million plus number.
And so that's where we stand today with it.
[00:26:03] Speaker A: That's so exciting to me, all of it. The other episode that you and I did, we went into detail about our relationship and how it went from a friendship in terms of yoga friends, to an investment relationship. So I did a deal with you where we did this purchase order investing, and that's how our tie in financially in terms of the money. This is like a Money podcast in terms of now I, through this purchase order investing mechanism, have become an investor in yBar. I mean, I'm not an equity investor, but I have potentially a longer term relationship as an investor and y bar through this one mechanism that you've discussed, however that plays out, and there's a separate episode on that which I hope people will, like, listen to when we post that one at some time in the future. There's so many places that I feel like it can go with you. So I want to just leave it open for now and have it be where we can kind of pick up this ongoing conversation. Because, as I mentioned in the beginning, and it's funny because you and I did a little talking before I started recording, and I'm trying to remember if we recorded this part or if I said it before we recorded. But, like, my wife and I are potentially looking at doing a business. So at some point, I'm going to have to wrap my mindset around the revenue game. So my. I would be going from zero to whatever the number is. And I like the idea of having someone like you in my network who has the experience, who's traveled that road, have a resource, like a friend, and someone I can talk to. And so that's, I'm doing this with a lot of small business owners and founders and entrepreneurs, as well as investors and traders building a community at the money adjustment in terms of networking relationships. Because one of my big mantras recently was, your network is your network.
[00:28:07] Speaker B: Yeah, I've heard that one. Yeah, that's true.
[00:28:09] Speaker A: Yeah. And it's a nice one because then it really just makes it about the people and less about the money.
[00:28:14] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:28:14] Speaker A: I want to give you the final word before we say goodbye to everyone.
[00:28:18] Speaker B: Yeah. Well, first of all, thanks for having me. And I think by going, you know, telling these stories and going through it, you know, there's all different ways to get there, whatever that is. Right. You know, you know, revenue wise or income goals or whatever. But what I've realized through all this with me, and they knew you used the word money adjustment is, you know, money or dollar or revenue. It's really just a relationship at the end of the day, that's a relationship you have with your body, with your, with your, with your wife or girlfriend or your kids.
It's a relationship you have with money. And it's always work in progress, at least from the entrepreneurial journey, my journey, you could, there's been, you know, on paper, wins and losses, but at the end of the day, it's just about growth. It just teaches you how to utilize this, because money should be, at least, what I've learned, should always be moving. Should be moving. You know, whatever that means is too much is different. If it's like keeping in a bank and earning interest, putting in business, being a trader, it wants to move, is what I'm saying. It just doesn't want to just sit there.
[00:29:28] Speaker A: I love that. I love that. And it's, and it is dynamic process. It's not static. Whatever your personal goals are with finances, it's always in flux. And I'm hoping through this community that we help each other in terms of navigating the changes and adjust accordingly.
[00:29:49] Speaker B: Yeah, and I think the one thing I could talk to that, you know, you mentioned you got that big windfall and you got there and it's just sitting there. I mean, it's like, yeah, it's a nice safety that, you know, when it came in, but, like, you realize after a short period of time, it wasn't that big of a deal. You know what I'm saying? Like, you put so much, like, emphasis on that paycheck or that big deal, but then you realize it wears off pretty quickly and you realize it really, you know, I gave that too much power, basically. It's really about growth and it's your point. Community and really just being the best person you can be and be grateful for these opportunities you have and just, you are a creator at the end of the day, and you just need to artistically express yourself and money is part of that. Right, right.
[00:30:39] Speaker A: This is a creative process. I think when we think about business too often, we just think of it as a, like a left brain activity.
[00:30:46] Speaker B: Right.
[00:30:47] Speaker A: It's just numbers right versus like you said, it's actually, it's a very creative process. And the left brain just serves to facilitate the right brain.
[00:30:56] Speaker B: Yep.
[00:30:56] Speaker A: So it's a cooperative effort. Thank you so much for being here. I'm so happy to have you. And I look forward to building on our conversation and watching you grow would like to grow as well. So everybody that's part of this community, it's really about growth.
[00:31:10] Speaker B: Yep.
[00:31:11] Speaker A: So, yeah. We'll see you on the next episode of the Money adjustment. Chris, hang on. We'll do a little chat afterwards. And everybody else, bye. Thank you for listening. Thank you for listening to this episode of the Money Adjustment. If you found a value like comment and subscribe, follow me on X at Mark Kramer, I look forward to seeing you on the next one.
