Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: I was on Clubhouse twice. I went in, saw my brother because he used to play in there quite a bit, and I found it disgusting. They were all screaming at each other. I didn't like it. It didn't have a good feeling.
And when Elon bought Twitter, that really impressed me. I was like, hey, let me go check this social media out. Because I have never done any of this. I have never been on radio or TV. My brother is the guy that likes YouTube. He likes the camera. He works it. He focuses on consumers. I've never focused on consumers. I go for big corporates. If I'm doing something with Visa or Exxon Mobil or somebody like that, they probably don't want to hear about what I'm doing in the public, and they most certainly don't want a politically vocal, aggressive human being. So I just stayed in the shadows a bit because it served me. This whole world started popping up, and I had become a fairly serious investor in bitcoin. As all that started happening, I'm like, hey, if Elon's really going to open up a platform, I have a duty to at least stick my nose in this and express my opinion. Nobody wants to listen cool while the platform's there and there's a bunch of crap going on a lot. No freedom, and we're taking everyone's freedom away. I literally watched, listened to spaces for about six months. One Saturday afternoon, I said, you know, I don't think there's anything really magic to all this stuff. I think you just got to hit the button. I hit a button, and I wanted to understand, can I run a room?
I'm really good at this. I wanted to experiment with, could I run a room that my mother could come into and she would be okay?
Meaning that it was respectful, it was intelligent. People aren't screaming each other. That Saturday afternoon, that room would go for six hours. And I was staggered. I'm like, wow, I can hold a room together for six hours. That's interesting.
So I played around with quite a bit of that, and then I started moving it. The bitcoin people started coming. I remember Grant saying something going, hey, this topic isn't big enough to create, to help people. I'm like, bro, you got no clue how big that.
[00:02:14] Speaker B: Hello. Welcome to the Money Adjustment. I'm your host, Dr. Mark Kramer, D.C. i am a chiropractor who loves investing and trading. Are you interested in what's moving markets and your money?
[00:02:28] Speaker A: Great.
[00:02:30] Speaker B: Let's get started.
[00:02:31] Speaker A: That's what Gary Cordone's doing. I'm not buying or investing in businesses right now. I'm buying bitcoin. It's a better investment.
I have no human error risk. I have no legal contracts. I have no lawyers to be included. I don't have to sign an NDA. I have no paperwork to file or to keep. All I have to do is show my accountants what I bought. I don't have a clock. I don't have a boss.
I don't have a government, a DOJ that can go, hey, you have to stop that behavior. It's phenomenal.
Yeah, I've been doing this my whole life, okay?
Literally, bitcoin. I think God just put bitcoin on the map just for me.
That's right, buddy.
[00:03:14] Speaker B: Yeah. So, Gary Cardone, I'm very happy to have you on today. I've been interviewing people from your space. I say your spaces because the people I talk to, like, you're the man in the spaces. So just, I want to give you. Just so you know what you're walking into here, because this is the first time we're actually talking to each other. This is our first. This is our first introduction together. So I'm just casually looking at my phone from time to time, getting push notifications from X.
And your spaces kept coming up, like, these bitcoin spaces, Bitcoin spaces. And I was like, all right, I'm kind of curious what. What's going on in here?
And so I was casually listening, to be honest with you. I wasn't a clubhouse guy. I wasn't a spaces guy. I didn't listen to any of that. I was a YouTube guy. Just like, watch YouTube and interested in what people have to learning from that direction, that platform.
And then I started listening in on these spaces, and my mind was kind of blown away because just so many smart people and just very intelligent conversation most of the time. Very intelligent conversations. I mean, it's open to the public, so you're going to get. You're going to get some interesting people from time to time.
But I think I'm sharing this with you because I think it's really cool what you're doing to even create that space for people of that mind to come together and have these conversations.
I mean, you have different conversations. It's not just always about bitcoin, but bitcoin seems to be something that you've anchored yourself to a bit.
And I want to give you flowers one more time for the I am.
I am the I am church part. Partly in preparation for this interview, I logged in. I wanted to make sure that I did it real time. And. And when you started it and when you started that, there was something that you said that really resonated with me and it. And it made me feel like exactly how I feel when I do these podcasts.
[00:05:23] Speaker A: I don't know if you guys have ever done this before, but this is a.
I will say this is a active.
This is an act of faith. I have no idea what I'm doing here.
I was telling somebody the other night, there's like, hey, why are you doing this? I. I'm doing this because I'm. I've literally been compelled to do it. I never thought I would be sitting in front of a bunch of people saying, I am compelled to do something.
[00:05:53] Speaker B: I'm like, I don't know what I'm doing. I don't exactly know why I'm doing this. Something told me, hey, man, start a podcast.
[00:06:01] Speaker A: Start.
[00:06:01] Speaker B: So I started a podcast, and honestly, I could have done a podcast on yoga. I love yoga. I'm a yogi, you know, I know you're an artist. You probably could have done a podcast on art and painting. But going back to what you said, it's that feeling like, I don't know, I just feel compelled to do it. So when you did I am this weekend, you started off that way, and I just felt like everybody was, like, right there with you, because people who are listening to that, I. I don't know what the final total was on your. On your. What would you call it? Live stream on that one, but I think it was when I was on. There was over 2, 800 people were.
[00:06:41] Speaker A: Watching at one point. It's very interesting, Mark. You know, I. I was on Clubhouse twice. I went in, saw my brother because he used to play in there quite a bit, and I found it disgusting. They were all screaming at each other. And this seemed to be like a Covid thing where people were just.
Anyway, for me, it was extremely. I didn't like it. It didn't have a good feeling.
And then when Elon bought Twitter, that really impressed me. I was like, hey, let me go check this social media out. Because I had never done any of this. I have never been on radio or tv. My brother is the guy that likes. He likes the camera. He works it. He focuses on consumers. I have never focused on consumers. I go for big corporates and do, you know, they don't want you. If they're. If I'm doing something with Visa or Exxon Mobil or somebody like that, they probably don't want to hear about, you know, what I'm doing in the public. And they most certainly don't want a politically vocal, aggressive human being. So I just stayed in the. In the shadows a bit because it served me. But as Covid wound down, this whole world started popping up, and I had become a fairly serious investor in bitcoin. I began seeing information inside the platform. One, there was some really cool information. Two, I saw it as a.
If people actually paid 20 bucks a month, that it was a platform that during the pretend presidency, that period, communication shut down. A guy like me was literally looking to be hammered. I'd already been under.
Well, I was under FTC probe. I had the DOJ look at me. I had the IRS look at me. I had all these three letter agencies banging on the door.
Spent four and a half years, $7 million, defending the case that the government would come back and go, hey, look, we think he owe us 100 grand.
Four years, $7 million in legal fees, and the crime was a hundred grand. It wasn't a crime. It was, hey, write me a check for 100 grand. As all that started happening, I'm like, hey, if Elon's really going to open up a platform, I have a duty to at least stick my nose in this and express my opinion.
Nobody wants to listen. Cool. But while the platform's there and there's a bunch of crap going on, a lot. No freedom. We're taking everyone's freedom away. I lived in Europe for 15 years. I'm watching what's happening in Europe, and what is happening in Europe will happen here if we don't stamp it down right now. And that's what. That's what I did. I literally watched Listen to spaces for about six months one Saturday afternoon.
I said, you know, I don't think there's anything really magic to all this stuff. I think you just got to hit the button. I hit a button, and I wanted to understand, can I run a room?
I'm really good at this. I wanted to experiment with, could I run a room that my mother could come into and she would be okay?
Meaning that it was respectful. It was intelligent. People aren't screaming at each other. That Saturday afternoon, that room would go for six hours, And I was staggered. I'm like, wow, I can hold a room together for six hours. That's insane. Interesting.
So I played around with quite a bit of that, and then I started moving it. The bitcoin people started coming. I remember Grant saying something going, hey, this topic isn't big Enough to create, to help people. I'm like, bro, you got no clue how big that coin is.
Because bitcoin is this really interesting neutral thing that like, there's. There's strings and attachments to bitcoin that are. It's a platform sitting on top of what we're doing. This is a platform, right? We're communicating with each other. But bitcoin's this topic that if you are open minded and willing to like, discover what you think you know. That's not true.
It's just not true. Okay? Like, people should really inventory. What do I think I know for sure.
And just challenge. Maybe it's not really true.
What if. Because I've seen a lot of people lose a tremendous amount of money being absolutely certain about something. In fact, it was just built on bullshit, right?
Like, my whole entire life around America, my entire life around America, the presidency of John F. Kennedy changed with a bullet or four bullets or ten bullets, or however many bullets. But he died. And the trajectory of this country was never the same. And no one's ever actually admitted the truth to what happened. That's 60 years, 68 years ago.
65. 60 years ago, right?
The platform really was away from. And I was lonely, man, I was lonely. I'm like, hey, on a Saturday afternoon, get hammered, probably pick up some chick.
But like, how long is that gonna last? And I've done all that, so it's kind of like, I know where that's gonna go.
And, you know, I'm very critical of the education system, Mark.
Extremely critical of the education system. And I looked at X and educators.
I think educators have an obligation to be educators and to be entertaining and excellent and like, engage your user, man. Otherwise, get the out of the way. Why are you sitting in the school room being boring?
It's horrible, right? Like, it's just so bad. So I.
The more I dug into this, the more I'm like, hey, look, that I'm paying 20 bucks a month for. I think there's other people like you out there that I would like to build a community.
A virtual but real community with real authenticity. And the bigger this thing gets. Remember, I started this from fear.
The bigger my community gets, my tribe, our tribe, your tribe, the stronger we get. Because you and I, if we're polarized, we are weak.
The government will take it all. If we are collectively together and just say, fuck you. No more. Stop it. Knock it off. We're not voting for you. We will resist it. We're not paying our taxes. We're not going to work tomorrow morning.
We gotta get our shit together, man.
So that's how I got involved with it.
And then the further I go down the rabbit hole, one Saturday night, two o' clock in the morning, I have this message, hit me. While I'm painting, minding my own business, thinking about, I really love to be able to go to church somewhere, but I just don't trust any religions anymore. I have studied four religions in depth and right or wrong, I've come to the conclusion that when you include man in a religion, it destroys the whole thing.
It just seems to be like everybody turns it into a cult and then they do stupid shit and then they start erasing information and giving you only so much information. And so I thought I would go, hey, what's really helped me. What's helped me is so many books that I have read over my whole life. And what really helps me is me taking responsibility for being God and saying I am excellent. I did not show up here by mistake. The bitcoin actually look, bitcoin, for those that don't understand this, there's a fixed unit, 21 million units. And that means it's rare. There's never going to be more than 21 million. This is not like crude oil, 21 million units that are all in the market. It's not going to change, as we have argued for years over the pricing of something, because people in bitcoin, hey, what's the value of Bitcoin? It's $109,000 right this second.
What's it really worth?
The, the, the what, what it made me think about was the value of bitcoin is wrapped into its supply constraints. And I started thinking, well, if one of 21 million is so unique and we're struggling establishing a value, maybe the reason is that you and I don't only know how to do price and because you are one of one.
And I can't tell you how many times I have stepped over, pushed away, disregarded, insulted, criticized a guy like you or any other person just because, oh, wow, you have a beard. I don't. You must be Middle Eastern. I'm not like, I, I'm a racist, sexist pig just like every other human being on this planet. Because if I don't understand something, I judge it.
Okay? And I think the more we just get honest with that and I go learn something from Mark, I don't need to. The enemy is not you. The enemy is these people that don't do what we're doing.
So I want to build a tribe.
[00:15:44] Speaker B: Dude, I got. I have to jump in there because, I mean, you called me out directly, but I love you for doing that and I love you for just being honest about it too. Because, like, a person like you may or may not have been in my universe as well because of either you not wanting to interact with me or vice versa, or I get. Get a vibe from you or you get a vibe from me. And we say, you know what this is, I'm not each other.
[00:16:08] Speaker A: And it's people. People are really weird too, because they'll get a vibe about my brother and have a vibe on me. I mean, that's really weird. Right?
[00:16:17] Speaker B: Right.
[00:16:18] Speaker A: You see what people do? I mean, just people get vibes and it's like, well, does not mean that it's right, man. You've done no investigation.
Right?
[00:16:26] Speaker B: Right. Because you brought it up. Like, I think to myself, you know, I'm not a camera person either. Like, it's funny that I'm doing something like this. I'd much rather. I love the spaces because it's just people talking. There's kind of. It's easier to just push the button and just get to the heart of the matter, if you will, even if you go through it through the mind. So pushing through those discomforts and doing something like this and creating opportunities like this for someone like you and someone like me to actually have a conversation. I listen to your space and I love a lot of what you have to say, especially when it comes to money, just to give you a quick rundown. Like, I've been following Bitcoin since 2008, but I didn't have any skin in the game until 2020. In 2020, around the 7K level, I was like, you know, there's something to this. I think we need to check it out. You know, they started having. They had like Mike Novogratz on CNBC and Anthony Pompliano. And so I'd see these guys and they made a compelling case. So I'm like, oh, wait a minute. This isn't just some fringe asset. There's something really tangible happening here and even beyond that. So like, I, I like joke now. I'm like a slow learner because I've been following it since 2008. Didn't dawn on me to get involved until 2020. And now we're 2025 and I'm like, shoot, I think I need to have cold storage. I think I need some self sovereignty. I think I need the independence aspect of it. I think I need the Stuff that people aren't talking about. I'm at a place now. I'm price agnostic.
Like, I think when you start to get to appreciate what the actual technology is, what the foundational layer of what, what the community. And it is a community, and it is tribal. There's a something that transcends. Bitcoin is an asset that everybody I talk to, they go. I can go so many different directions with this. We always get hung up on price. Like, price goes up, price goes down. But when we start to appreciate what's the actual technology, what are you actually investing in?
I heard you. In preparation for this interview, I was listening to a couple of your other podcasts, and you were saying, like, a $2 trillion asset doesn't go away. We are now at the bill.
Yes. We have, like, de. Risked it. So even though the price is higher, it's like, oh, man, I could have gotten in. I could have had more at a lower level. I'm like, I didn't understand it. Maybe it was better off that I wasn't in it at a lower level, because now I actually understand what I'm trying to accomplish with it. And I'll just start stacking and I won't care about what the price is.
[00:18:53] Speaker A: And I'll just st. Yeah, look, I think as your conviction goes up, it should not be about price. It should be more about, oh, well, I'm actually acquiring a piece of unique real estate, a unique asset class that had. That's its own asset.
There's no assets in the world that are their own asset classes.
Bitcoin's the only asset that is literally in its own bucket.
Oil. Oil, you know, I mean, energy has nat. Gas, electricity, gasoline distillates. It's a very unique 1990s kind of opportunity to get into the Internet. I mean, if I told you that 1995 you were gonna build Amazon for 50 cents, I mean, that's what we're doing.
Okay. And by the way, the. There are four shareholders still of Amazon today, and they're all with the last name Bezos. They never sold. So the stock went up and down, I think eight times, had 90, 80, 90% retractions. And the question about Amazon, hey, when was. When should you have sold Amazon? It went down 90% eight times. And the answer is never. Never. Okay, look, the. The truth is. And. And you're probably just a smart guy. 2008, the people in crypto did not know how to sell Bitcoin. So they were. So, like, there's no chance of me deploying 86% of my net worth into Bitcoin in 2013 or 16.
No chance today I would do it with a. In a heartbeat. I mean, in an absolute heartbeat.
In fact, I would take a discount on most of my legacy assets to just get out of it. And I think this is. People. People don't understand. After you've been around on this planet long enough, if you have invested in assets, I have assets. I can't just unwind.
I own interest in companies. I can't just call the guy, hey, I want my. I want my money back. I can't call my. The guy that I invested in real estate with and go, hey, bro, those seven funds I'm in, I'd like to liquidate. He's like, cool, dude, but what about the other people sitting in the fun?
So these are instruments that have duration I don't have control on, when I get in, get out. But otherwise I would contract all of that and push it into the bitcoin industry.
[00:21:28] Speaker B: Yeah, I think along the same lines of what you're saying. I feel more confident investing allocating higher now, even at a higher price.
Because to. To your point, I see, now I actually see the potential of it. It's like, it's surprising to me how long it took to actually kind of have the epiphany of what was actually going on here. Like, I had Joe on a couple like a week ago, and Joe was talking about how we're. We're not even. Joe said, I want to tear it apart. He's like, I went into it to break it down to, to prove why it wasn't going to work, to tell you why it's not right. And, and then I then through that process and he's, he's a litigator, he's got a litigious mind. So he's like going through it and he's like, wait a minute, this could actually work. And so having that analytical process about it that's, you know, I'm tapping into. And you, you might resonate with this where challenges you as an individual, it sounds strange to say, but as an asset, it like, because it has you question your, your deepest beliefs about money and what money actually is. And then when you go down that rabbit hole, and it is a rabbit hole because no matter how many people it's like, wow, how many times can you talk about bitcoin? And I'm like, seems like no matter how many times I'm talking about it, there's always some little nook and Cranny to uncover and something new emerges and new understanding. Some of it's personal. Even with you. A lot of yours is a personal story. I heard you last night. I was on your the spaces you do in the evening and you were talking about I just want to be free. I just want the freedom. I just want to have. And again to your point, that asset, that is your asset. You have the keys, you have the ownership. It's not about, you know, partners and a community. It's odd. Now I'm thinking about this. I want your take on this. It's not about a community, but it is communal at the same time.
[00:23:28] Speaker A: Yeah.
Look, if bitcoin didn't have the community effect to it, I wouldn't know that it wasn't there. But I do know that it's there. Okay? There is a community. You don't have to be involved in the community.
[00:23:42] Speaker B: Right, True.
[00:23:43] Speaker A: I could have trillions of millions of dollars of bitcoin and not like cool don't know anything about what's going on. However, if Facebook.
Facebook's valued at two and a half trillion dollars. Two trillion dollars.
Google's three trillion, something like that.
I think these are social engines, right? And therefore if they're social platforms in buried inside of Google's stock price is what is their stock price?
They're $174,174 right now. Share.
Okay. I don't can't see the market cap, but it's monster. Nearly 3 trillion if they get paid a premium or some part of that $175 is a part of the community.
The network effect.
That word network effect. Network effect means community.
However, the network effect that Wall Street's talking about is just a bunch of robotic kids on Facebook just TikTok away. We're building community, okay? Community has more depth than TikTok Mikmak Lick lock. That was what clubhouse was.
Just a bunch of anarchy crazy people. But no production, no creative, long sustainable. You can't argue every day and believe that a tribe is going to sustain itself and grow. You have to get some common ground and then start bringing other people into this gravity.
Now why am I saying this? A hundred thousand dollars.
You and I could literally spend this entire interview talking about the community value of bitcoin.
And I don't think there's a dollar or a penny of value cooked into 110,000. I would never have fucking met you, bro.
I would never have met Josie. I would ne. I have 30 friends today that will be lifetime friends. I have been in four industries. I do not have lifetime friends from four industries. 30 people from every industry calling me, going, happy, happy New Year.
Hey, buddy, I was just thinking about you. That doesn't happen. You leave an industry, you leave a business. I've built four of these businesses and you leave them in people like they're on to their next life. And you're on your next life.
But this community effect telling you, okay, my brother's in bitcoin today because of me, okay? I'm friends with Michael Saylor, Fong Lee at Strategy. I mean, I have some Mark Yusko, I have some awesome friends. I came into this industry four years ago.
Like, that's the other thing. People like, bro, where did you come from? I fell in love with this industry. You know what? There are no closed doors here in every industry I have ever been in.
I was buying half 500 million cubic feet a day from ExxonMobil every day for three years before they would have lunch with me, before I could buy lunch for ExxonMobil. Low level guys too, man. VPs, directors, the arrogance of these industries are staggering. I call Mike Novogratz. In fact, I shouldn't use Mike because Mike's about the only one I haven't gotten to. But I called everybody man head and I did. Hey, man. Coming into town next week. My name's Gary Cardone. Would love to have.
They don't know who I am. I mean, they know he's a safe point.
I've been told no once, okay? That's the way you build information, intelligence, community. I've had people that, you know, completely disagree with my politics, which I'm starting to think I might disagree with my own politics.
But around Bitcoin, we have this North Star thing that is neutral. It's like Switzerland, okay? Whether you have a 2% allocation or 100% allocation. Look, I'm just glad you're in the club.
I'm glad you're in the club and I want you to get really rich because.
And it is about number go up, okay? Anybody listening to me? Don't invest the way I do. It's. It's insane. It's not insane, actually. It's just not. Most people don't do this, okay? It's. It's just what I do. If I'm not all in, I'm just not gonna. I'm not gonna get excited.
I'm not gonna be here. I'm gonna go focus on something that is, you know, makes my heart pump. Anyway, I have met some unbelievable People, Okay? And, and if you really look at Facebook, go look at Facebook's chart. 15 years ago, this is a 15 year old champion that has not lost a horse ratio.
And every horse regulator has tried to kick bitcoin out of the horse running business.
She's 16.
She's been bred by one of. Hmm. I'm gonna bet against that. Okay. I'm gonna bet against a 60 year old horse versus purebred, 16 years old, been attacked by everything and its own owners attack it. Because the bitcoin community has done monster damage to people just because they didn't know what the hell is going on. I mean, you got a guy, we're saying Roger Vera could be worth $80 billion and he's sitting in a fucking prison in Spain for 50 million dollar violation.
That's just dumb. Okay? The greatest money in the history of bitcoin is getting ready to be made right here. You're not late, Mark.
The greatest money ever made in bitcoin has already been invested in bitcoin the last three years. More money in the last two years since the ETF has been invested in bitcoin than all the years prior.
[00:29:37] Speaker B: Can I share my, can I share? Can I piggyback off that, Gary?
[00:29:42] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:29:43] Speaker B: So when I started to really get interested in 2020 and I'm like, man, I could have had it at a dollar, it's 7k, 8k. That's about when I started to think about taking a position.
And then I started to watch videos and I started to educate myself. And people would always say, you're still early, you're still early. And so like that whole cycle through 2021, 2022, I would hear people say, you're early. And it's like, oh, the price is so high. And yeah, that price was high. It's like what was the peak then?
Got up to 69K.
Now we're all, we're almost double that. We will double that by the end of this year. You know, financial advice, right?
So, but my, but, but this time around, this cycle, I think that's why everybody almost has to go through a four year cycle to be educated. Now people say I'm class of 2020, I'm class of 2015, I'm class of, you know, 2008, you know, I'm an O. That's like the OGOG.
So like we have these classes, but to your point about being early, I get it now. Because if you're looking at a million dollar plus asset, I don't know when I don't know how. I don't know, you know, 10 years, 20 years, 30 years even, or less.
If you're looking at a million dollar. If you understand the technology, this is where it can get evangelical. But it. But if you understand the technology, if you look in it, you don't even have to understand the technology because I don't think either you or I could explain blockchain to anybody that had a real technical background with it because that's not our area of expertise.
But if you, if you know that there's.
Oh, go ahead.
[00:31:22] Speaker A: You can't explain to me the way your brakes work when you're doing 110 miles an hour on a wet road or how you got to 110. I mean, I get in an airplane, I don't really know what the guidelines of that pilot are. Is the plane really bent? Right. You know, we do a lot of crazy shit, dude. And don't know a lot about it.
[00:31:42] Speaker B: Absolutely. Like, I'm a doctor. I had to take anatomy, physiology. I had to take biochemistry. I couldn't teach a biochemistry class now. But what that taught me is that I know there's people that understand it. I know that you can understand it if you decide that you want to understand it at that level. So when I think about something like the blockchain, I don't need to be able to explain the blockchain to you. I listen to the people that understand it and I know they understand it. And they're peer to peer. They have to be able to communicate, communicate with each other. So I know there's that base layer of understanding. So I don't worry about that aspect of it. And if you could get past the fact that it's like you don't need to understand the technology if you understand that there's people that understand the technology and the bigger conceptual aspect of it, the important part of it is the store of value. The to the point that keeps getting stressed, and it's the point that people really should start to link onto is you have two competing.
One's not a currency, one's money. We get into the whole conversation, hard money versus fiat. But one's a currency that's printed into infinitum, the dollar. You know, what is the value of anything when you're basing it off something that goes into infinity? You never know what the value is. But when something is finite, 21 million, then you can measure value. It's just in my mind, that's like something that recently shifted. It's just like, wow, it really is kind of that easy. Just think about how you're valuing something. It's just easier to value something when you know what the denominator is. With the dollar, we have no idea what the denominator is.
[00:33:19] Speaker A: Possible to value something when the denominator keeps changing. If I keep adding water to this coffee, I'm going to end up drinking water. Now do I want to really pay $2 for it?
That's inflation, okay?
That's inflation. The credit based Ponzi system that people talk about.
People don't understand. In order for the system to work, you have to constantly be creating new debt. You understand what I'm saying, right? Like there's a point in time where let's say you and I meet on an island and let's create a money system. I'm gonna create this little symbol, okay? Here, I draw a little picture. I'm gonna hand it to you. Now, you have a thousand units.
You're going to owe me 1100 units in six months of this.
And, but if you think about it, oh, okay, that's a 10%, 10% interest rate. I'm going to owe 100. Where are the other hundred units going to come from? There's only a thousand of these things printed.
So I now have to go just to know that you're going to be able to go find that hundred somewhere. I have to get another hundred out in the market so that you can go buy it from him, that other guy. And then you have 1100 units to give me. Okay, this, our system is designed that in order for the money and everything to grow, you must create more credit out of thin air. Okay? It would be like me saying to you, hey, listen, it does not matter fast you go or how far you go. You have an unlimited supply of gasoline. Oh, gosh, that's not, that's not going to last forever. You're going to burn right through that gasoline because no one's going to value it. They're going to literally use gasoline to go three feet because it's free.
Okay? But if you reverse it and go, oh, wow, I just create money anytime I have a problem. Would you not do that? Of course you would.
Every time I have a pain, I'm going to inject a painkiller into my body.
I will continue to inject painkillers into my body until there is no pain. And when the pain gets great enough, I will inject some more and I will do it like, you know, people talk about drug addiction, but I know people that last on heroin, 40, 60, 70, 80 years. I mean, addicts don't die very frequently. I know we hear about the ones that die, but there's a lot of addiction that goes on for entire lifetime. And that is the currency game that we're playing here.
It's currency, okay? It's just current. It's literally they're making it up. Now. What you and I are doing, I think will have long lasting value.
Numbers and value are not the same thing.
Took me a long time to go, oh, wow. A man told me once, he said, you know, I know, I know people that know the price of everything down to a penny and the value of nothing.
And I thought about a family I was associated with once, and they would go five miles to get gasoline for less for a penny discount.
And then they would hurry up home and drive the car into the garage and not use the gasoline.
How crazy is that? I drive extra to save a little penny, okay? But I Gosh, that took 15 minutes for my girlfriend. I could have actually given her a kiss and had a cup of coffee with her.
So I could have had value. But instead I was like, I need to save money.
It's not money. It's a piece of paper, man, that people are creating. Literally. Now the damage comes when you see your kids and my kids going out into the world, team going, you're gonna make 15 bucks an hour.
They're not going to survive.
Okay? Cost me $100 to go to the movie theater day two kids, me, I mean, dude, 75 to $100.
When you got, gotta spend 75, it's $75 to go to dinner with two kids. I go on a date, it's 300 bucks.
It's 300 bucks. And I'm not a big drinker and I can afford all this, but I'm looking around going, whoa. This spread between people like me and the rest of the world getting really, really broad here, man. It's expanding. And that's. That is a problem, right?
You can't have, you can't have a whole society just trapped on a machine.
I'm actually very excited about AI because I think AI and Bitcoin are all conversing at the same time and space when we may find out the real value. Keep talking about how many jobs this is going to displace.
I actually think that 60 or 70% of the jobs that are currently held by people, the people hate the jobs.
It is not their life's work.
They get no value from it. They're literally prostituting themselves for $22 now.
And that AI may be a window where be so busy like a squirrel to get my nuts. I'm actually starting to think, imagine, create, follow my, Follow my goals, you know, follow my passion while I'm here. That's why I do the I am thing.
Because I'm like, wow, I could a thousand bitcoin and be an asshole. I'm just going to be a really big asshole. That's it. And I don't want to live my life that way. And people shouldn't live that. We should be able to have great success, be happy, and be productive members of society.
Geez, is that, Is that asking too much?
[00:39:14] Speaker B: No, I 100% agree with all of that.
I have three kids. I have, you know, a wife. I'm married, but I always say I have a daughter in college and I have one in diapers. So I'm taking it, coming and going. I remember my first child and I just had to worry about the diapers. And I didn't even think about what happens when they. I mean, I thought about what happens when they go to college, but I was panicky. I would have never imagined that young man, when I would tell him, today you're gonna have the three kids to just wait about that. But you get to like some kind of breaking point. I don't want to go too divergent off that. I just think about the generations, like you said, too. Like, I, I have, I have kids in each generation, so I think about how challenging it's going to be for each one of them. Like, it's, it's, it's. If we feel the struggle, then our next generation is going to feel the struggle. And you've heard for a long time now how they said, or how we say the next generation doesn't do as well as the previous generation. It is odd to have that happen. And there's a lot of. I mean, we could get into wealth inequality. Right. If you start to have this conversation.
[00:40:16] Speaker A: I mean, are we sure that I've done better than my generation?
I think most people are actually living a better life than they ever have lived.
[00:40:25] Speaker B: So what, Wait, what generation are you, though? What generation?
[00:40:29] Speaker A: I was born in 1958. You call me a boomer.
[00:40:32] Speaker B: Right, right, right. So, like, I'm Gen X, so we have the smallest population size. No, I'm not, I'm not trying to make like, I'm not trying to say.
[00:40:41] Speaker A: That you should be. You guys should have collaborated. Right? But you didn't see when I, When I left Seriously, dude, when I left.
[00:40:49] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, no, I'm kind of, it's.
[00:40:50] Speaker A: Kind of funny, but 1976, I finished college, high school, 1980, I finished college. That would be the very peak of the boomer population of people moving into the world of business and getting jobs. So everybody in their brother was trying to get a job in a recession, in a monster, monster recession. 81.
Now today I look around at very broad range of age and friends and I'm hearing the younger people really complain about, I can't buy a house, I can't own a house. Yeah, you shouldn't own a house. You're too young to own a house.
Like, I don't know who thought that at 27, 30 years old, you're supposed to own your own house first. And there is no shame in renting a house.
So like, nobody said nobody in Pakistan has a right to own a house. Or Iraq.
Where is this bullshit come from that a 28 year old guy needs to own his own home and he chose to live in California. Told my twin brother for five years he should leave California because he couldn't afford a house in California. And the truth is he could afford it. But when he moved to Florida, he made a lot more money, life got more prosperous.
One, he moved. He just left his location. That's a good thing, you know, go on adventure. I just, look, I think people are gonna have to hustle and we have economic conditions that are not going away. And to sit here and believe the government is gonna fix this. You need to hustle is what you need to do. I think your 18 year old, your college student is gonna have a greater challenge than your youngest because they're getting ready to be. Look, we're getting ready to have this period probably going to last a couple, two or three years where it's just going to be a vacuum. There's going to be a lot of people lost in this gap between the analog world and this is what I love about bitcoin. Think about bitcoin as, oh wow, you remember what an eight track tape is, right? Cassette tape, then the cd, we don't use any of those anymore, do we?
Am I ever going to listen to Grand Funk Railroad on an eight track tape?
No, dude, I'm not. Also the marijuana I smoked when I was 16, technologically, it is advanced so much now.
Technological gain is what I'm saying. Okay? The digital technology that we're moving into, there is a point in time when I will not at 110 miles an hour because I become the variable, man. I am the problem in a digital world.
So I look at bitcoin and go, wow, this whole thing's moving.
The whole thing is moving from one of slowness and no transparency to speed, global speed, global commerce.
People having tons of different options to be able to bifurcate the market, play with the market, extort the market, exploit the market.
Like, I live in both these worlds. And I think for bitcoiners who go, hey, you need to live only in this world, that is foolish. Okay? I will arbitrage the legacy world as long as it will let me. And by arbitrage, I mean once you own bitcoin, you start to see monster gaps in this market opportunities that you're like, oh, wow, this is just like ExxonMobil. This is just like the oil business back in the 70s when it was being in 80s when it was being, shall we say, restructured or reformed away from a monopoly structure. So it's just a very exciting, like how you would want to miss another Internet 3.0 revolution to me would be.
And I don't want to invest in companies that are creating weapons and bullets and killing people, man. That's the other cool thing. Bitcoin allows me a very clean hands investment approach.
Remember when everybody was all worried about esg? Like I'm worried about investing in. That kills people.
Okay, Weapons, Raytheon. I'm never going to invest in Raytheon, okay? It's not cool. I'm not going to support war machines. Like, I mean, Since I was 16 years old, we've been arguing about going to war 50 years.
We're still warring little countries that like, what are we doing?
So if bitcoin helps break the system back, I'm all for it. Because this is not working.
It is not sustainable for the human race. Think of it. It's not sustainable, man. We have people that are grossly uneducated.
I mean, just about the basics.
[00:45:31] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:45:32] Speaker A: Just the conversation about the. That most people don't know that when you think about that, you could, you could really get philosophical on this. Right? Like, what is value?
Most people, it's a number.
No, it's not a number.
[00:45:45] Speaker B: Yeah. Gary, I really appreciate having you on. Oh, it's funny, I wasn't sure if I wanted to. I kind of want to just casually talk to you about this just because it's been kind of a hot topic and everything and I wasn't there. I don't know what happened between our friends.
Okay, great. So I guess there was something that transpired Between Dark and Joe. I was listening to your call last night and they were both on last night. Yours is one of the few rooms that they're actually that I see them both in still together. And one of the interesting kind of debates that's happening right now is, you know, Dark has his thesis about the long, the big long or the inverse short, however, whatever tickles your fancy in that regard.
And he makes a compelling case. And I kind of heard you listening to these two guys talk.
Joe joke gave his. I don't know if he gave a counter argument yesterday. I don't think he. I don't think they really like went down that road yesterday.
I think when, when Dark was making his case, you were, you were kind of talking about like. I just remember you saying, man. No, that's the part that excites me.
[00:46:50] Speaker A: Yeah, well, look, I mean, I actually like the tension. I think it's very good.
[00:46:55] Speaker B: Can I, can I say something? I agree too. You, you do the debates you had, Joe.
[00:47:02] Speaker A: That's why I started doing the debates, because I started seeing people argue. I'm like, hey, like these debates are designed to solve problems right now, innocuous things and going, hey, let's debate. But look, I believe that you can. I believe communication is the solvent for all problems. If you're honestly communicating.
Yes, really intending to communicate. And Bitcoin, look, these two guys are awesome.
[00:47:28] Speaker B: Totally.
[00:47:29] Speaker A: I know a lot of awesome human beings don't get along with each other. Okay, I like Bitcoin's really interesting because it does bring a lot of different characteristics around. It's a very democracy type space, the bitcoin industry as a whole.
But you know, early people to this space, man, they're, they, you know, I mean, some of these guys have been around a long time. Some of these guys are richer than sin, you know, so they're going to have characters. And back to your point on the conversation because Dark and I have a deep commodity background. Commodity investing is really different than equities. I mean it's. Commodities mean that it is a fuel, it is a car, it's a product that has weather risk, it has input risk, energy risk.
You know, commodities are very, very different than say, GameStop, the stock. And they behave differently, especially in supply crunch and vents. And that's what Dark's worried about. Dark sees a world where there's so much paper being traded around the strategies of the world, the microstrategies and the ETFs that it is.
And much of this is just paper. It's not real bitcoin.
And once there's a supply shock that you'd have a run on bitcoin and there'll be a gap between 108 and who knows? Because there's just, you know, you can't get the coins. This concept comes up with, hey, what's. What happens when there's not enough bitcoin to buy?
Now, for me and Joe, I'm not trying to talk with it. I have that viewpoint that this commodity could most certainly do that. In fact, I'm here for it. It will do it in my life. It'll do.
Oh, it's gonna, it's gonna. It's gonna tear people's faces off. However, I actually believe price solves everything.
So we go to 185. I mean, you can have a lot of sellers and then it's going to come down to 150 or 130. People are going to freak out. See, I think the shakeout, I don't agree that we're going to have this break moment.
I do believe that's the way we're going to get 20% of the coins out of the OG's hands by introducing extreme violence once this thing really starts to roll. See, notice that it's how calm it is. Bitcoin's calmer than the S and P right now.
Volatility on bitcoin has lower than the S P today, okay, in the last month or two.
That's a big deal.
But I think it's a big deal because it's going to shake somebody up. One more, you're going to wake up, that's going to change. And I just, you know, I think in 16 years, there's a lot of families sitting on 10,000, 5,000, 3,000 Bitcoin at 300 bucks when they see the price go to 100. Look, people are selling bitcoin.
That's what's happening. They are selling bitcoin, these old holders. And that's really healthy. It needs to happen. I think where the next shakeout comes, the price goes to 185 over an event, and then it comes down to 130 and all the wives are going to sit there and go, hey, this is bullshit. And we're not going to live like this for another four years because it is four years. See, the cool thing about bitcoin, no human being has ever lost money if they held bitcoin for four years, no matter how, what price you pay for it. Okay? And the return, by the way, we started, you started Talking about returns at the very open. If I only get a 9 or 10% return from Bitcoin at $108,000, are you telling me you don't want that return for the next 20 years?
No. 8, let's call it 100 grand. And you get a 10% yield for the next 10 years, okay? That will be almost every real estate property you could ever invested.
[00:51:29] Speaker B: 100%.
[00:51:30] Speaker A: And, and you don't have to call anybody and go, hey, I want to sell the property.
You don't have to call a broker. You don't have to call my brother and go, hey, I want to get out of this fund now. He goes, you can't get out of it. It's a four year old, okay? It's a perfect duration.
You cannot. All you people that want to go out and build businesses, I hear from everyone, that's what Gary Cordone's doing. I'm not buying or investing in businesses right now. I'm buying bitcoin. It's a better investment.
I have no human error risk. I have no legal contracts. I have no lawyers to be included. I don't have to sign an NDA. I have no paperwork to file or to keep. All I have to do is show my accountants what I bought.
I don't have a clock, I don't have a boss.
I don't have a government, a DOJ that can go, hey, you have to stop that behavior. It's, it's phenomenal.
[00:52:19] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:52:20] Speaker A: And I've been doing this my whole life, literally. Bitcoin. I think God just put bitcoin on the map just for me.
How self centered are we? Right? But literally my whole career was set up for this exact trade. This, this life event. You know, when you see one of these come by, you wouldn't want to miss it.
Because if you think about how many great trades you've missed already, Mark, right? I mean there's go, wow. If I would have just been paying a little more attention, if I wouldn't have been involved with that girl, I might have met that girl. If I wouldn't have been in that business, I might have another three zeros, right? So I mean, people talk about not moving a house because they can't go get the, the, the, the interest rate they have is 4%. They don't want to pay 6.
I hear this all the time. I'm like, you're defining the value of your life over 2% on a half a million dollar house. It's only 10 grand a year.
What is wrong with you, you're going to stay in a zip code for $10,000 a year premium because you have a 4%. I think these mortgages are traps coming and going. If you have a 2% mortgage, you're probably never going to sell this house because the rate's so low. That is insane.
[00:53:41] Speaker B: Yeah, that's kind of a different. That's a different discussion. Yeah, yeah. You know when just real quick, because you brought up the four year cycle, do you think we're still on the four year cycle or do you think it's. We're done with that. Where you at today?
[00:53:54] Speaker A: We may still be in it, but we shouldn't.
The only reason the four year cycle has ever really had an impact was the amount of bitcoin that was contracting over every four years. We're at 450 a day now.
450 Bitcoin a day are being mined three or four times that amount being bought by strategy companies.
So I don't think it matters anymore. And the volume, remember, the volume goes down over time. So in three years you'll be at 225, 225 Bitcoin a day being produced. It's look, this is you front loaded.
You front end loaded the 21 million units. 16 and a half million went out in first 10 years, right? First 12 years. So you got all this volume out at really, really cheap prices. And it's created this behavior where if you've held this long from $3,000, you're very wealthy.
So you're sitting here going, hey, do I sell it? Do I hold on to it? Look, this is a moment. This is what Max Keiser calls the cotillion event.
And I've never heard that word before, but I am now. I am a cotillionaire. And cotillion means that you're close enough to a new technology or a new form of money. You're so close, it's a value that you got in alters the entire game. The cotillionaire becomes extremely powerful just because of the proximity he was to the event, if he participated, participated in it.
[00:55:31] Speaker B: Like that word, cotillionaire.
Yeah, man. Next level, next level, next level.
[00:55:40] Speaker A: And that most certainly is happening, right? That, that this is happening. With bitcoin, everybody's going to kind of do the same thing, okay? They're going to follow any kind of light they can. But when there is a north star bitcoin, like we've not. Your lifetime, you have not had a nar star that didn't change.
Therefore you've never had a narsar. Narstar means it doesn't move, it doesn't change. It doesn't get dimmer.
Okay? It's nar star, does not change. Bitcoin is narstar. Everything else is getting ready to be measured against.
Because now you have a nar star, man. Yeah, everyone's gonna look at that one light and go, how did my real estate do to bitcoin? How did my job do to bitcoin?
How did that investment in that private equity company that took me 15 years to exit, how'd that.
[00:56:26] Speaker B: When did that happen for you, Gary? When did that happen for you? When was that where you flipped and you actually flipped to the bitcoin standard?
[00:56:33] Speaker A: Well, I don't ask anybody when they came into bitcoin. I asked them when they started deploying extreme amounts of capital. And if the answer is they never did, I don't care.
Next guy.
[00:56:44] Speaker B: You don't care distinction here. Can I. I'm sorry, I don't. I don't mean to interrupt you, but I think you make an important point, and I want to make a distinction here because this I told you, like, in 2008, I studying it, and in 2020, I finally put some skin in the game to your point. It's like, I don't care what you say. Show me when you're actually going to start putting some money in it. And I'm not playing at the same level as some of the people that we're talking about. I'm just saying I finally have some skin in the game. But I still wasn't measuring my value of, like, my house or my car or the things that I care about or what I spend my money on, movie tickets, whatever I'm doing, I didn't measure it off bitcoin. It honestly wasn't until this year going into your spaces, listening to the smart people that you have around you, the people you've attracted into your orbit. God bless you for that, and thank you. Because now I'm one of those people because I've been attracted into your space and I've been been able to have access to people in your space that have expanded my mind and I'm finally starting to calculate via the, like, a bitcoin standard. So when I asked you, like, when was that trigger for you? When you're like, wait a minute, like, there was like a shifting point, like, you might have already still been invested in or putting money in it, but when you're like, oh, crap, this is what I'm really doing the point I.
[00:58:05] Speaker A: Was trying to make, I always ask people what their average cost is, because average customer, when somebody at 300 bucks tells me, hey, it's 300, I'm like, wow, you don't really get bitcoin.
This is the point. I was right, right?
Should have been going up every year. I mean, it was a monster mistake not to keep buying bitcoin. Here's a good example, and I use this because he's such a big figure, and I don't mean to be defame him anyway. But Chamath.
[00:58:30] Speaker B: Ever, however, Chamath Palihapitiya.
[00:58:35] Speaker A: Of the entire supply of bitcoin at one time, at 300 bucks, he sold it all, okay? Now he's buying it all back.
Now, if Chamath had just held on to the 5% position of Bitcoin, I think that's 1 million Bitcoin, he would be one of the richest people on the planet today. He would be sitting in Trump's office, okay? And David Sacks is there. He's not. And that would mean something. Chamath and his entire Indian lineage and the power of that, if you just think about that Indian would be sitting in the Trump administration right now, and he'd be the richest guy in the world, and he would not have harmed his reputation by doing six packs that all turned into bullshit. So you start looking at some of these stories and you're like, I mean, Dan Tierra, I mean, you know, this guy's got 30,000 Bitcoin, he's stacking. I mean, these people have become. This is a lifetime different opportunity. This is when you see one of these.
Now, keep in mind, okay, I probably put the largest short on in the world in Europe, on electricity. I'm that guy.
Okay? So it was once I started buying bitcoin, dude, once I started buying 27, 32, 42, 45, 47, 52, 57, 55, 62, 66, I was selling everything. Every time I bought some more, I said, shit, how can I buy some more?
Okay, the house I live in is worth $112 million. You're invited to come to my house in November, and when you show up, here you go, dude, this isn't worth $112 million. Well, of course it's not, but the 8 million that I borrowed to buy it had. I borrowed the damn money just to buy bitcoin. It's worth $112,000.
[01:00:19] Speaker B: Right, right.
[01:00:21] Speaker A: That was an opportunity.
I missed it. Dude, you can't sit there and miss these opportunities and go well, gosh, I wasn't paying attention. Cool. You weren't paying attention, but you missed it.
So don't start getting on me by seeing, like, don't look at me and go, wow, you're lucky. So many people have told me I was lucky. I was willing to stick my nose in the. You were not willing to do. I wasn't curious, and I had a problem. Okay? I think people that have a problem. As soon as you leave this phone call, your problems are going to get bigger because you're going to start thinking about what Gary said. Oh, wow. What do you mean by my problem?
Bitcoin shops a tremendous amount of problems. And problem is friction. Any kind of friction. Like, friction. Now, problems for me are. Don't bother me.
Like, okay, we're going to do a call at 2:15, 3:15, see you later. I don't need 30 phone calls. I don't need secretaries. Everybody texting me, pinging me. You sure you're there? All that work, Dude, I was taking a nap before I got.
Yeah, but I've made two and a half million dollars this week reading. Well, that's sweet, bro. Why wouldn't you not want. Okay, now here's a. Here's a guy that, like, I have done nothing but work, okay? Like, I can work anyone into the ground. I just. Once I am in the game, I just don't even get tired. Like, while y' all are taking breaks, I'm. I'm plowing through it.
[01:01:51] Speaker B: Do you consider yourself a workaholic?
[01:01:53] Speaker A: No, not at all. I think.
[01:01:54] Speaker B: Okay, you have good balance, right?
[01:01:57] Speaker A: Yeah, No, I have no balance.
[01:02:00] Speaker B: No. Okay. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not getting anything right here.
I'm looking at the.
[01:02:06] Speaker A: I'm not balanced, though. But. But I'm not. I'm extra. I'm an obsessed personality. Obsession has served me very well, but I am not a balanced human being.
I'm either in or I'm out. I'm just not. I'm not gonna go fully. I hate golf. I don't like golf. I don't care how nice of a guy you are. I don't want to spend three days on vacation on a beach doing nothing.
I need to be intellectually stimulated and be doing something that I'd rather, you know, write something or paint or. People should do whatever they want to do. But obsession has just served me really well.
I'm most fun when I'm, like, completely into something.
[01:02:48] Speaker B: Yeah.
[01:02:49] Speaker A: I don't know why people dilute themselves and want to be Average at everything.
I don't need to be average at everything. I just need to be good at one thing.
One thing makes me a master. Why wouldn't I want to be a master? Why you want to be a jack of all trades?
Master, man. Master is a monster. I am a master. I became a master at one thing at about 32 years old. I was like, whoa, dude, I have a gift now. I didn't know how I got the gift. Notice I didn't take credit for the gift.
Like, I've always been a reasonable looking guy, just like you. I didn't do anything for these looks. Why would I get all vain about it?
I did nothing. Zero, man. I won a lottery ticket, you know?
[01:03:31] Speaker B: Right?
[01:03:32] Speaker A: I mean, seriously, no sense of me short thinking I'm. You know what I'm saying? I just. Yeah, I think you guys are blessings. And like, I just.
Why wouldn't people want to look for a life, a once in a lifetime opportunity?
They're everywhere.
I mean, Mark Zuckerberg could have been Mark Kramer, okay? I mean, I wouldn't want to be Mark Zuckerberg, but the truth is these people were at the right time, in the right place, and they pulled the trigger.
And that's. That's it.
That's. You just got to get in the game somewhere. The cool thing about Bitcoin is you don't have to have any expertise anywhere. All you have to do is be willing to show up and get curious and ask yourself, why are so many smart people that you've never heard of? This is not JP Morgan. This isn't Jamie Dimon. These are rogue players. And the more you look at our backgrounds.
Dan Tapiro. That's the first thing I look at. See, I look at the intellectual capital going into an industry.
You stick this much intellectual capital into an industry instead, okay, like we are.
We know how to make change.
Middle management doesn't make any changes. They just keep the status quo.
It is guys like me, me and my brothers had massive arguments over this because he's real estate, right? He doesn't want the corporate real estate market to fall over. And I'm like, bro, there's no way anyone's going. The great people of the planet are not going into offices. It's done.
This is a overreaction to Covid. He's like, no, no, you're wrong. I said, no, I'm absolutely right. Because a guy like me will never, ever be forced into anything ever again. And because I don't have to.
And by the way, you rip out the top 3% of your corporations, the 3% of the intellectual capital that runs that company. They're not coming in the office. You're left with nothing but middle.
No culture robots, middle management, vice presidents and directors. Company will collapse under its own mediocrity without those champions there. That HR has driven so many champions out of great businesses and now we're all. Dude, release us all into the wild. We will do major damage. Give us Bitcoin.
You give me Bitcoin, dude, I'm a visa and MasterCard.
That's my goal. Like we need to get rid of these draconian entities that are protected by three letter regulators, protected to be monopolies, to gather your information.
That's the only reason they must want all this.
Okay, but like it's a world that's bizarre to me that we're living in a world where two companies own 72% of all the plastic production, plastic credit cards. Two companies, 72% of all credit cards are handled by Visa, MasterCard. The United States States. We have monopoly structure. Facebook and Google are bad companies. They own 80% of all the social media flows.
They turn people off. I cannot keep a Facebook account. I've had seven Instagram accounts. Someone has blocked me. Even my PR team is like, bro, they hate you. You know why? Because I think Mark Zuckerberg is scum. I think he stole shit from Weagle boss brothers and he's been living a lie. He cooperated with the US government at every agency level. He's a public company and he didn't tell anybody this. These are felonies.
Yeah, okay. Yeah.
There should be a class action lawsuit against NADA today over his admitting to the world that he cooperated with every agency. Did he cooperate with the Israelis? Did he cooperate with, with the guy that's the Secret Service in Turkey. Who else did he cooperate with? These are public companies, man. So I don't have any of those issues with bitcoin. If I get super rich with bitcoin, it's only way for me to balance out. Talk about balance, how do I balance out people that have billions of dollars who are in the club and they want it to stay that way.
[01:07:52] Speaker B: Right, right. You're making me think of Michael Saylor.
[01:07:56] Speaker A: Where his market cap is 108 billion. I mean he. Look, MicroStrategy will be worth more than Amazon is.
[01:08:04] Speaker B: I think it was his keynote speech that I'm thinking of. And he was talking about the, the goal of getting to that level using the strategy that he has employed. But it's kind of going back to the asset itself. In Bitcoin, it is that. It's. To your point, it is not regulated. It is not centralized. It doesn't have a figurehead that can manipulate it or do something to it. And I think it's that pure purist aspect of it that is so compelling, especially for someone like you. Like a rebel, a freedom, independent thinker. Nice to know that you're not. It's self governed, but it's the self with an S. The big S. Not the little self, but the big self.
[01:08:46] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah.
[01:08:47] Speaker B: Gary, you want to promote something to. I think you're doing one of those debates again tonight, right?
[01:08:52] Speaker A: Yeah. So I do Monday, Monday afternoons at 5pm on spaces around bitcoin and finance. Tuesdays, we hold the debate. I'm trying to perfect this debate cycle where we can hold a conversation of great, maybe tension, but do it in a educational way where the audience can hear two people. Look, debate for me is not about winning. It is about the audience. When 3,000 people get in a room and convene, I think it's my responsibility, actually. Hey, 3,000 people entered. These are not robots, okay? I don't pay for any of these people.
Not a bot guy.
There's 4,000 people that show up Sunday mornings. When I started seeing that, I'm like, 4000. I don't know any churches that have 4000 people in them on Sunday mornings at 10:15. Do you?
Anywhere in the world?
When I saw that dude, the first time I did it, there was a thousand people. I'm like, I actually went and checked all the names. Like somebody bothered me.
Like, I've spent zero on advertising. No one, really. I've done nothing to, you know, super drive this thing since October.
I've done.
What is that? That's about, I don't know, 100 hours of video work on IM and it's just about getting through. Your whole thing about Sunday is I can't go to church. Sometimes I get around religious people. And then the last time I was around a really religious person, he gave me the. I was going through a struggle and I said, hey, you know, help me out, Kendall. Help me out here, man.
And so he. And he goes into. I didn't understand the word. He said, you know, sermon. XY, Romans 32. One says this. I just need somebody to tell. Like, I don't need all the mumbo jumbo, okay? All the religious nomenclature. I don't even understand half the words. What I need is someone to say, hey, how do I find my brilliance.
And if you can't even act, if you can't even say that you have any brilliance, then that's probably worth looking at, right? Like, wow, you live every day. You don't think you have some brilliance in your life?
Let's challenge that. I think it's worth challenging duty.
[01:11:10] Speaker B: Call us. Who let the dogs out.
[01:11:12] Speaker A: Yeah.
I try to do this on every podcast. Nobody tries to do a wrench attack on me because you're gonna have to get too passive. Very serious. Black dogs.
[01:11:23] Speaker B: Oh, man. Awesome, Gary. Thank you. Thank you so much. And I'll probably be on your spaces tonight listening and in the chat room.
[01:11:32] Speaker A: Look forward to it.
[01:11:32] Speaker B: I don't see you, brother.
[01:11:33] Speaker A: I think it's debate on concentration in bitcoin.
[01:11:37] Speaker B: All right, sounds good, man. Thank you again.
[01:11:39] Speaker A: Great meeting.
[01:11:40] Speaker B: Bye.
Thank you for watching this episode of the Money Adjustment. If you want more like comment and subscribe, you can follow me on X Mark Kramer until the next episode. Stay healthy and wealthy.
[01:12:00] Speaker A: I'm going to go focus on something that is, you know, makes my heart pump.
