Meme Coins and Market Psychology

[00:00:01] Speaker A: Hello. Welcome to the Money Adjustment. I'm your host, Dr. Mark Kramer, D.C. i am a chiropractor who loves investing and trading. Are you interested in what's moving markets and your money? Great. Me too. Let's get started. [00:00:20] Speaker B: Yeah. This is the crypto eo. We're going to be forming an internal working group to make crypto to make America the world capital in crypto under. [00:00:26] Speaker A: Your leadership, which is really going up, right? [00:00:30] Speaker B: Absolutely. [00:00:37] Speaker A: All right, David, that's for you. [00:00:39] Speaker B: Thanks. [00:00:40] Speaker A: You find them exciting. They might not be excited, but they're going to make a lot of money for the country. [00:00:46] Speaker B: Thank you, sir. [00:00:47] Speaker A: So today I have. I have a return. I'm going to call you a fan favorite because I am a fan of yours. And so as soon as. As soon as I build my audience up, I hope more people recognize you and become fans of yours. [00:01:02] Speaker B: Thanks, man. [00:01:03] Speaker A: So. So Andrew and I go back. We. We've done a couple episodes already, and every episode we do is a little different because Andrew and I have different. We both do a variety of different things, and our mutual interest is investing in trading, which is very appropriate for the show. If you're interested in some of our past episodes, they're cataloged so you can go on to Apple primarily. I'm on other ones, too. Working on Spotify, still working on YouTube. It's just like little things that I got to take care of that because I'm at this point a solopreneur in the podcast journey that I have not gotten around to those things yet. To get to the meat of what Andrew and I are going to talk about today, Andrew's been sending me a text on interesting articles or articles that he finds interesting and relevant. So relevancy this week, it's all a blur, but I still think we're in within seven days of the inauguration. Right. Was that on Monday? So it's Thursday. So we're still within or. No, it's not even Thursday. [00:02:07] Speaker B: It's only Wednesday. Two days. [00:02:08] Speaker A: Yeah, Wednesday. So it's like two days. Oh, my God. I feel like he's just been president forever now. Now, President Donald Trump was inaugurated on January 20, and prior to the inauguration, over the weekend, he launched two meme coins. So the first meme coin that was launched was Trump Coin. And then the following day, he launched and I don't even know if you say he launched it. Yeah, Defi organization. [00:02:36] Speaker B: He didn't. He didn't. It. Melania launched it independently. It wasn't him. [00:02:41] Speaker A: Okay, so Melania launched independent also this. [00:02:45] Speaker B: Is like a big issue for the crypto, you know, crypto, Twitter. [00:02:48] Speaker A: Okay, we're going to get what. So, so just give. So just to give our listeners some perspective here, Andrew, I would consider you more of an expert than I am for certain in terms of the crypto space because you are actually involved in some of the communities. You are more cognizant of what's happening. You're a younger individual too, which also gives you an edge because you're growing up and raising, being really indoctrinated into the culture. And one of the things that you said to me in a prior episode that really woke me up and changed my thinking was younger people think in memes. And when you said that, it was like a light bulb went off in my head. I'm like, wow. Like, it made me one, it made me feel old because I'm like, I get the, I get the idea. I understand memes, but I don't think in memes and I don't think a lot of maybe my listeners and my Gen X audience and older are thinking in memes. And in fact, when they think of memes they just, they go, they probably go nuts. Like this is such, you know, they probably get out, the grumpy old person and like, oh man, these kids these days, they don't understand how financial markets work and they don't understand money and they don't understand what's going on. So maybe that's a little over exaggeration. Maybe not. Maybe that's somebody who's listening. So if you're a listener, I am a Gen X who is open minded but also skeptical. So if you're coming from that standpoint that you might find some value if you're someone who's curious about what's happening in these markets, because some people argue that cryptocurrency is going to be the financial future that we all have to wrap our minds around. There's Web three gets involved in this. And so there's a lot of interesting things happening here. And I brought Andrew on today so that we could talk about these things while they're still relevant. Like I said, the inauguration was just a couple days ago and the coins were launched prior to the inauguration because there would have been a huge conflict of interest had they been launched while Donald Trump was actually president. So the guy's no dummy. You can argue whether he's a stable genius or not, but he's certainly not a dummy. I'm going to, at this point, I actually. One more thing before I let Andrew talk. I listened to someone that you referred me to just to. Just sent me a link that this is someone you got information from. I think his name is Bark. Bark Meta or something. So he had an open spaces last night and I just happened to be lying in bed and it came up and I was like, well, this will be interesting. And I got to listen to him and. And the open spaces. And they were talking about Trump coin and they were talking about it in a way that I really started to appreciate the community building around it. So I'm like, okay, I'm starting to get it. Like, there's this community that's evolving around the coin. There are these people that are going to become zealots of the coin. And to Bark's credit, he did say he. This is this. I love that he said. He's like, I'm not a, like a bitcoin maxi or an eth maxi or any type of maxi. We are money maxis. And I'm like, I can wrap my mind around that. I don't want to get too locked down in any one specific trade or investment, but I do want to understand the opportunities that are out there for people. And so today we're going to be talking about Trump coin and Melania coin and other things going on in the crypto space. It needs to be said, this is not financial advice. I am not nearly qualified to be giving you financial advice other than I am just very interested in different spaces. And with that being said, I would love Andrew's perspective on meme coins. [00:06:23] Speaker B: Yeah, well, great to be back on the show. I feel like at this point we're like hosting a regular show for like, tail end millennials into, I don't know what, what generation Gen Y or Gen Gen before me. Gen X. What's your generation? [00:06:40] Speaker A: I'm Gen X. I'm Gen X. [00:06:43] Speaker B: So let's say like Gen X, like tail end millennials. What the hell is crypto? What the hell is anything? You know, meme coins is like layers deep of what's happening right now. And so I think that an important thing that generally what happens, like with anything, you've got early adopters, you've got the, like the middle majority, and then you've got late adopters. And that's just the way it works with anything, whether it's crypto, meme coins, altcoins, NFTs, any of that stuff. Right? And so you're going to have die hards that just buy in because they buy into everything. Right. There are certain things, like Hardware that I buy as a product. Like, I've got my rabbit AI. I haven't even opened it. I've got my. I've got my pixie selfie drone that I haven't even unboxed. Like, I buy products because I love products, not because I want to use it. I'm not interested in its functionality. I'm interested. It's. It's kind of like heart. Like, the reason you pay so much for art is because it's as close as you'll ever get to the process that the artist went through when they made it. You're trying to connect with that artist and their thoughts. What were they thinking when they did, how. What was going on in their world? That's the only way that's the closest you'll ever get is holding that painting and looking at it and trying to understand, like, what is this? And so I'm very similar with products. And some people are like that with meme coins or with altcoins or with crypto or, you know, with bitcoin. I was at a bitcoin meetup just outside of Manhattan last year. One of the guys was talking about. I mean, he's multimillionaire in crypto anyways, but bored API hold club upholder. And he was like, dude, when we were in college, we were talking about the satoshi white paper. Like, what is bitcoin? Is this the future? Is this what's going to happen? It was worth nothing. Imagine you put a dollar in there and it's like, that's pretty insane. 100,000x. Yeah, right? [00:08:41] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:08:42] Speaker B: So. But any. In any. Any scenario, there's early adopters and. And you do want to listen to the early adopters. Not because they're always right, but because they're the. They're the only way you're gonna know what might become. Doesn't mean it is coming. It just means it might be there. A lot of times they're hyper zealots. I'm a hyper zealous person. When I have a product that I love, you won't get me to shut up about it. I love it. I can't stop talking about it. And. And so people either, like, block me or they listen and they're like, okay, like, what's so cool about this? You know, you saw me with threaded, where I get obsessive. I was doing two drops of threaded a day. It took me like two to four hours a drop. I was like working full time, building a startup and doing threaded for fun. Like, I just once I'm in. You can't stop this train. And so you want to think about anytime you see something that's new. The question is, where is this at in its cycle? Is this an early adopter moment or is this the middle majority? Like, have the early adopters already made their money and they've been talking about this and they know every nuance to it and there's a chart to back it up. You're just showing up because it hit mainstream media. And so a lot of the middle majority bases what their decision making off of the mainstream media news, which is late to the party. So a lot of times people will be like, dude, I just heard about this. And they're almost a month late on a conversation that was already three months ago. [00:10:12] Speaker A: Right? [00:10:12] Speaker B: So, so, so they're like, joe, did you hear, like, yeah, last year I heard about that. Last year, like, like years ago I heard about that. So a lot of people, it's not that they live under a rock, it's just where do you get your media? Where do you get, where do you consume media? So this goes layers deep. And the reason I'm going through this before I even talk about memes is you have to understand where are you grouping? Like, where are you falling? Are you an early adopter? Are you middle majority? Are you a late adopter? Depending on where you fall, what your temperance for anything in life is going to determine how much money you can make or where you put your money, because you're going to wait for validation, you're going to wait for security, you're going to wait for a chart to form. You know, there's day traders, like, we won't trade a chart for the first year. I won't touch it. If I don't have a year of data to work with, I won't touch it. [00:11:07] Speaker A: You've already, I relate to that. Yeah, I relate to that. [00:11:10] Speaker B: You've already said there's no money in this for me, no matter what. So then at that point you're, you're a middle majority related doctor, there's nothing. You can still make money in it. But just know you've already removed that possibility of being a part of something. And so when you think of like. [00:11:30] Speaker A: Real, real quick, I hate to interrupt you, but I think, I mean, my mind goes right to risk because you're, you're looking at risk. Like, the reason I won't trade an initial public offering, for example, is for the reason you said there's no chart formation yet. And so the people that do Jump in on that are assuming more risks. So if there is an upside, yeah, they're going to capitalize on the front run upside. But there also could be hurt more on the downside. Whereas I want to see some validation before I take a position. So it's a risk tolerance issue in that regard. That's the way I see it. [00:12:03] Speaker B: Yeah, sure. And I, and again like everything has so many dynamics, right? Like you're looking at volume, you're looking at volatility, you're looking at the sector. There's so many things like, I mean we're generally, you know, hey, I don't trade an ipo. And it's like, okay. But so, so going back is, you have to know like where do you get your source of information from? And that is really important in today's world. Twitter is the number one media station in the, you know, and then you look at like TikTok substack, there's a handful of places like if you want the most important information real time, you better be subscribed to a handful of players that are in that circle because they know they're, they're touching it real time. And then beyond that there's like another layer. So every one of these players in these like super small circles that get information, they also have an inner circle that's a paid subscribe membership that gets you like up to, up to, up to, up to speed information. So it's like if you really, you know, I could learn this in 24 hours. Well, 24 hours, the millionaires were already minted. You didn't get the memo. [00:13:09] Speaker A: Yeah, Trump. Yeah, just real quick on that. The Trump coin went up, I think it was as high as the highest number I heard was 73 billion even though it's been cut in half since then. So that's 7300 billion market cap that was non existent the day before, which is surreal. And then even beyond that, even if you just don't look at what's being traded, there was millions of dollars made in fees alone from the trading. So all of this money, in my mind it was just created from thin air. I know there's some technology behind it which I hope we get into a little bit later. Like the Defi protocols and, and what the, what Trump is actually traded on, I think it was created on Solana. There's some logistics that I don't fully comprehend, but I have some gist of them. But I didn't, I didn't want to. I always interject when something pops in Because I know we like to run. So I hope I didn't like break your complete train of thought there. [00:14:05] Speaker B: No, no, not at all. I mean, and you should like interject because anybody that's watching this, they're going to have the same questions. It's for sure. It's not like, you know, every, every Gen Xer right now is probably a thousand miles away from this conversation. This, this is already like, whoa, whoa, whoa. [00:14:23] Speaker A: That's how I feel with my group of friends. Like, I'm interested because my friends like to trade stocks and they invest in stocks and real estate and grown up things. I don't know. Like, that's maybe not the best way to put it, but. And it's relative. I'm not knocking, believe me, I don't. I feel it like I'm sounding older and older as I get older and older. But those are. My friends are in my category. I like to think I differentiate myself from them in that I am interested in these spaces and I will continue to learn about them, to understand them. Not that they can't, but they. They just maybe don't have the interest. So me doing this podcast is partly to bridge some of that for my generation and maybe even attract in some of your generation. I love talking to you because I'm learning from you in terms of like what you're investing in and what you're thinking. Real quick on this because it's in the back of my mind and I haven't stopped thinking about it since you first said it was you bought the rabbit and you bought like one other thing. You said you bought two things that are pixie. [00:15:24] Speaker B: Yeah, pixie. It's. [00:15:25] Speaker A: You bought those two things. They're still box. And my mind went to when I was like a kid in the 80s and we were thinking if I keep this action figure in its box, it's gonna have greater value than if I take it out and use it and play with it. And is that kind of what you're thinking with these products? Like I got the rabbit. It's like an artificial intelligence product that may have some value down the road. [00:15:47] Speaker B: Like. [00:15:48] Speaker A: Or is that completely off? You just haven't gotten around playing with it? [00:15:51] Speaker B: No, I don't even want to play with it. I don't even want to. I don't even want to open it. It's. And I don't want to sell it. Like my mind works very different. I love product design. My. My favorite designer is Jony. I've just unbelievable industrial designer and all the products that Apple's put out. Like, I just think of in life, slow down and put value in something it's not. The value isn't. And how much I could sell it for. The value is in how much it is, how much it means to me. That's the value there is. [00:16:24] Speaker A: No, no. I love that. And I actually think, like, we didn't get quite. Get to this part yet, but in terms of, like, coins in general or meme coins, there is an aspect of that where people maybe feel some kind of close affiliation to our current president and may feel like they want to own a piece of this, whether they think it's a part of history or maybe they have some kind of emotional connection to it, or like you've always said, there's community building around it. So I'm like, I'm trying to wrap my mind around it because someone in my category, we're not interested in investing these things in these things. And even I heard Anthony Pompliano, who's well known in the crypto space, and especially with regards to Bitcoin, was saying he's not investing in it. And he understands that some people are pro and anti what it actually means to the entire space because some people argue that it kind of demeans the space and it looks scammy. And so, like, people are now less trusting of cryptocurrency because they're like, oh, it's just the money grab. It's these pump and dumps. [00:17:26] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, listen, Trump is. He has sold collectibles over the years. No problem. He doesn't mind dropping product, you know, like, buy his golden shoes for a thousand dollars. Like, it's a collectible in the sense of anything that he touches turns to gold for him. For the collector, it. He doesn't give a damn. It's like, I just sold a tchotchke and made a dollar. So if. As long as I made a dollar, I'm okay. If I don't make a dollar, there's a problem. Right. And so. [00:17:56] Speaker A: So. But like, older people are gonna say are gonna. Some people, including myself a little bit, are gonna have a rub with that. A rub in the sense that this guy. It feels to some people, and I agree with you, it's just what he does. And he's done it before, and this time it's memes, and next time it'll be something else. But the people who buy, they're people who feel like these people are being victimized in the sense that it's not regulated by the securities and exchange commission. These people are just jumping in, because who knows why they're jumping in. I think that's part of what I want to get at with you in terms of not pooh, poohing it and say, all of these people are fools. Because I listened to Bark last night, and that guy didn't strike me as an idiot. And so he was advocating for the coin. So I'm thinking to myself, what are people missing? Maybe that. That feel like these other people are just being victimized. [00:18:50] Speaker B: These are such loaded questions and broad topics that it actually doesn't help anybody because you can. You'll just. You'll speculate on why people do things. People do things for a load of different reasons. There's generally eight reasons why somebody will buy some. Seven reasons why somebody will buy something. Seven reasons why they won't. You've got. I mean, this goes to the psychology of sales. If there's seven reasons that I might buy this, there's seven reasons I might not buy this. Your job as a sales guy is to identify why I want this and why I don't want this. And as long as you can say why this is good for me because of one of the seven reasons, and it's different for everybody. And then you say, but then you hit on the key objection or concern that I have of like, yeah, but my one concern is they're gonna. I'm gonna lose all my money. You know, and if you can overcome that objection, and then you can also tell me, you're gonna be a part of history. You've got. You. You've got safety. How do we know? Because 50 billion other dollars have been pumped into this thing. There's no way you can lose. Well, if everybody else is doing it, there's my money, and you sold me. I'm sold. Suckers get sold every day in every product. You pay more for gas than you should, right? Listen, getting going down that road doesn't make you any more or less susceptible to a scam. You just knowing something doesn't make you smarter. It's what decisions you make with what you know. And a lot of people want to be sold. They want to believe that this next product is going to change their life. All marketing comes in and starts with, your life sucks because. And here's how we can fix it. And if you're like, you know, I actually identify with that, my wiener doesn't go up anymore. Give me a right like, help me out. Oh, my God. When you think of products, when you think of anything, I Mean, Coinman is a product and the economy, we're in the attention economy. Just listen to Gary Vee read Jab, jab, jab, right hook. Read any of his books. All that he has done for the last decade is get people to show up and listen. Now Hormozi's like, he's taken the spotlight. He's the guy. I don't think Gary Vee is any less relevant. I think he's just gone on to different things. But like, even Gary Vee launched vee friends with NFTs and ran it up to the moon and NFT get you into his event at Vcon and like he's created this whole ecosystem off of little drawings that he did, invented them into one of 10 NFTs. And everybody went crazy over. And he reached the young kids. And I'm telling you, like, when you think of, of what's happening, people, it's like, what about Gen X and like, what about the boomers and all this? And it's like nothing. They either get on as the middle majority or as late adopters. There is no option to not do this anymore. It's not like at some point I would say, like the mountain comes to you or you go to the mountain. And this one, I think a lot of the middle majority, the mountains coming to them, they're getting hit with it right now through media, through social media. They're here. Everybody in the planet right now is talking about crypto, guaranteed. Everybody in the whole world right now is talking about crypto. Bonk, Trump, Doge. Two firms just filed for ETFs for, for crypto for meme coins. This is going to be traded on major platforms as a spot. [00:22:19] Speaker A: Yeah, it already is. Robinhood offers the Trump coin and Coinbase offers those coins. Yeah, they do. All right, right. The Trump. Right, right, right. I got that. Right, right, right. It's even gonna get. So like, if people want Bitcoin, like Ethereum. Exactly, yeah. People who. [00:22:43] Speaker B: I'm saying these are mean coins, the. [00:22:45] Speaker A: Asset directly are going to own some derivative of it. So they feel like they're playing in the space. [00:22:50] Speaker B: Yeah, sure, yeah. Or they could raise capital and they could use that money to buy that, that currency and were to go out like they still have value in the market. Like they've. So there, there's a lot of interesting things happening. Right? Like, who would say Bonk is going to be listed on a major exchange? Who would say, like, you could trade it like a. Like any other etf? Nobody would say that about a freaking Dog coin. That's a joke. And yet here we are. Why? Because people are fucking greedy and all they want is to make money. So the question you have to ask in anything you do is how is this guy making money off of me? Because anybody that's promoting something probably has a dog in the hunt. And if they say, I don't have any dog in the hunt and be like, don't you sell a premium subscription for insider trading information? So if you can give me enough free information and you're right, wouldn't that make me more inclined to purchase your premium package? [00:23:50] Speaker A: Right. I think Jim Kramer has that. Jim Kramer's Investing club, he's always marketing that on cnbc. So it's like, yeah, he's giving all this advice and he's helping all the retail traders. But to your point, there is a product on the back end that he eventually wants to attract you to. That's what I'm trying to. I have like so many things. So many things. As always, one thing real quick because I want this on record because I keep bringing it up and I still think this in my head and I will know if I'm right or wrong by 2026. So by the end of this year, I'll know if I'm incorrect in my theory. Because you're like, everybody's talking about crypto right now. And it makes sense to me because I flashback four years ago. And so 2021, 21, it was talking, it was like altcoin season. It follows the bitcoin cycle. It's having its clockwork. That's what I love about it. That's why I think that's never going away. Because once people recognize it's like a clock, it's like you go to high school for four years, you go to college for four years. Presidents are, have terms are four years. We are conditioned culturally to be on four year cycles. And these four year cycles are now it's an indoctrination for bitcoin because there's these four year having cycles. So once you know how the clock ticks, then you can have, you can use that as an edge. It's not going to give you day by day, but it will give you a broader over like a broader stroke of the whole strategy. So that's why in 2024 I was very confident that bitcoin was going to go to $100,000. I was thinking about it early on these podcasts, I'm definitely not the only one because there's people that have been talking about it since, you know, since inception, since 2008. But I kind of got the four year cycle in 2020 when I actually experienced it, because I actually invested in it. And so now I'm like, okay, I've got skin in the game. And so when you have skin in the game, you pay a little bit more attention. So now when you're saying crypto is all being, you know, everybody's talking about crypto and I'm like, yeah, I see it. And it makes sense. Still on that four year cycle, my question, a broader question, which is maybe beyond the scope of what we're talking about right now, is what's going to happen? What's going to be the story like in 2026 when all of a sudden we are not in love with crypto anymore and another Sam Bankman fried event happens and then we're like going into the scare, into the crypto winter again and everybody's going to know what this like somehow it's almost like the stories evolve around the cycles. So it's not like the story dictates what's happening. It's that people recognize there's a cycle happening and then they have to. There's a story that's created to just facilitate this process. That's, that's my theory. I think there's a lot of evidence. If you just go back and look at a bitcoin chart to back up what I'm saying in terms of the years, like we know every year it peaks one year after the halving. So last year was the halving 2024. If it follows previous cycles, we should hit a new high sometime this year in 2025, and then it will have a downward spiral back into the last high, which will be somewhere around 69 or 70. It may even hit that again before it goes up to 250. I heard Tom Lee say something about that. Like his price prediction for the end of the year is 250, but he said it could go back down to 69 before it gets up to 250. And I think he was on Scaramucci's podcast, so he also was of that mindset. And I can definitely see that as well. So I'm just taking a broader overview. So like when you and I are talking now, we're like all hyped up on crypto and I get it, it's the conversation in the moment. I want broader listen, I want the listeners to realize, and this is my perspective and I could be wrong, but we're talking about this upcoming year. Everything that, that you're saying to me I think is relevant for the next maybe week or a couple of weeks and then maybe the rest of the year and then the conversation is going to change in some way. Now people could argue institutions got in this time we had now have a president that's pro crypto. I heard somewhere he's like 80% of his net worth is now crypto investments because of how much things have gone up. So that also creates some kind of interesting conflict of interest in terms of what's going to happen. So people could argue like this time is different. They did in 2021 as well. They argued this time is different. They believed A lot of people in the space I was hearing that I listened to, that I respect were saying it's now mainstream. It wasn't. We had the FTX situation that took it down to like $15,000 in 2022 and then we've been in a slow climb out of that up until the last couple of years after the having and then here we are where we're at. So maybe this time will be different, maybe it won't. But I'm still of the broader perspective and I actually hope I'm right because if I'm. Obviously you want to be, you want to think you're right, but I hope I'm right because my fundamental thesis is, is a clock and I want to see Bitcoin as a clock and I like the asset because if it, if it works like a clock, then I know when to put risk on and I know when to take risk off. I have a long term position that I hodl that I know it's going to fluctuate to all kinds of numbers that I'm not even thinking about because I'm playing the long game. If you think it's going to a million dollars or it's going to replace gold, then we're still early. You talk about early adopters. People go, how does something 100,000x and you're saying it's still early. And I got the last cycle it went from a dollar to, to 20,000 to 60,000. People were saying you're still early. And I didn't, I didn't quite get it. Then I was like I kind of get it. But now this time I'm like, oh, they keep saying that you're early because if you're looking at a million dollar asset for a single coin, the whole spade, like I don't know what the market cap would be. Trillions of dollars, it's already close to 2 trillion, then. Yeah, you're early still. You can still invest in this if you're your position size appropriately and you're not freaking yourself out of all of these positions. Sorry for that rant, but that's where like I just kind of put the broader overview on kind of what we're talking about now. And I'm going to give you back the floor. [00:29:46] Speaker B: Yeah, no, you're good, man. I would say that bitcoin is very different than meme coins and altcoins 100%. I wouldn't base meme coins and altcoins off of bitcoin. I think that the market definitely moves at times together. But altcoins move independently overnight based on pumps. Like, they get pumped to the moon and people make a lot of money and then they'll pull the rug out and they take all their gains. And so would you say similar to what happened to Trump? Trump was a mutual. [00:30:19] Speaker A: These pumps are seasonal, though. They don't get pumped in the crypto winter. They're not. I mean, maybe they do, but not to the, not to the parabolic extremes that they're pumped during the super called God candles. [00:30:31] Speaker B: Yeah, God candles don't happen all the time. I mean, it happens randomly. So but I mean that is very influential on, on crypto. Twitter is like these groups that pump, pump these coins and Trump at the same time was pumped and dumped like it ran up and within 24 hours because it's all on chain. The addresses are public on the ledger of who took out money. These guys were insiders that were allocated coins before it went public, before it was released. And then they took millions and tens of millions of dollars in gains they didn't have to do anything for just because they were inside with Trump. And Trump locked 80% of the. Of the supply for himself. It's a total. It is not. And the thing is, is like crypto is, I would say, like apolitical. It's not. The goal isn't to, to drive policy or anything. Like it needs some support and some help for adoption. Right. For like, for mainstream finance and defi. But like, this was, this was very. And it was very also when they took Doge Department of Government Efficiency and put the dogecoin emblem on doge.gov that's actually really bad because Doge wasn't created for a government entity. And so Elon's taken something where he built a lot of trust with the crypto community and pumping and pumping publicly. But then he took that and said now this is, this is what this is. And the crypto community is like, no, it's not. That's not what it is. [00:31:57] Speaker A: Well, now I'm thinking centralization versus decentralization. That's always been one of the arguments that were. Was a risk headwind to Bitcoin in particular, because it threatens. Decentralization is a perceived threat to the powers that be. Because if the power is centralized and they're the ones that can control your money and see where your money goes, and the big eyes are watching and overseeing everything. When you decentralize when, when you know what's happening because it's publicly available, but it's numbers, it's not individuals unless you know the individual's account or wallet for whatever reason. Maybe they're promoting something. You can help me here and maybe other. And maybe this will help other people listening. When I visualize blockchain, I think to myself, what's practical here? What's practical here is there are computers, there are miners that have been doing this now since 2008. They've created a network of computers that are all. It's running on some type of hardware that is mining for these coins and creating the ledgers and creating the record, which we now call the whole blockchain, which is just ever stacking on itself. It's never regressing, it's only progressing. And that at some point in the future, because the Internet, the way it is now, we don't really know who owns what because everything's ubiquitous and I could just screenshot something and download it on my phone and post it somewhere else or just trade images or like I had somebody clone me recently on X and they took all of my videos from Instagram, created basically the same identity I have on X except put Christian at the front. And that Christian must have made a big difference because they had 10,000 more followers than I have. And like they built up a base and actually, unfortunately we're selling things to people. That was the part where it got deviant. And they're, they're selling. I don't know what they were selling to people, but I look at. This is what I think. [00:33:52] Speaker B: This is why most crypto heads are anonymous. Like anons. Like we don't use our profile picture in our handles. If you go through and look at every crypto head, none of them have their profile pictures because they're, they're not going to dox themselves. [00:34:04] Speaker A: You know, they're not going to let that this is where I go a little bit like in my head I get, I don't know if I call it weird, but this is like the. My fantasy brain or something. I think to myself, like, I see all of these characters in the space and then I look at myself and I'm like, do I want to be a character or do I just want to be who I am? And then I can have a more trusted voice. Like an Anthony Pompliano has a trusted voice because you know who he is and he's out there and he's. And it's his face and he's on cnbc. And Mike Novogratz is another big name that I think of. And so you have, when you have these faces that are actual people in the space, they're the ones that are on cnbc. Like, I know there's like, yeah, CNBC is late to the party. They're getting the news late. Everybody's getting the news late. Because it's the insiders, it's the apes, it's the people behind these spaces that are really the ones making what's happening happen. And I get all of that. And I'm not even negating that. I'm just saying, like, as an individual, I'm not coming in and competing with that space. Especially I'm a Gen X and I don't really understand it. And I still, my primary investments are in stock. Like, I'm still a stock guy, but I have a small allocation to my crypto portfolio. And I like the space and I like having you on because I think it's interesting and I do think it's what people are talking about. And I do think for people who are maybe a little bit closer to me in terms of age wise or in thinking that this could be a bridge for them to maybe get a broader perspective on the space as a whole. So again, a digression. But I'm like, I think that's why you, you can follow me on X. I don't have any followers. Like, it's funny to me, my clones have more followers than me, which is atypical. It's like, usually the people are being cloned have some kind of credibility or reputation, and then the clones come out because I'm followed by a ton of clones. Which bugs me too, because I'm like, man, I already have very few followers and now I know like a percentage of them are clones. And the only reason that I don't just start up a whole new account is, is because I have legit people following me from cnbc that I'm like, oh, man, I don't think I caught them in a moment of time where they. They just decided they liked something and they followed me. And so I'm like, if I start a new account, I'm never going to get this person to follow me again. But that's. Yeah, that's a side rant. I. It's like, it's. Like I said, it's just kind of how I see myself evolving in this space. And part of the reason is I have a podcast now, so I'm talking about it. Everything that you and I have talked about in the past is now published, and it's available for public record, and people can go and listen to it. And so I'm. I'm creating a voice within the space, and I'm creating. Not my. Like, it's like, this is my voice, but you're really the voice. You're. You're the voice in the sense that you're in the space. You're actually doing the stuff. I'm getting educated by you. But also, I don't. When I think of you, I don't think, oh, Andrew Bandica, he's the crypto guy. I think, oh, trader. He creates. He. He's creative, makes really cool jackets. And now we're really getting divergent. So I'm just going to stop that little rant. But you do. [00:37:05] Speaker B: What do you think about? I mean, you gave me a lot to think about. I mean, this is like, identity. What do you want to be? Who are you trying to. There's a. That's a whole marketing. That's a whole marketing question. That's a whole. What's going to happen in 2026? Where. Where is crypto? Is it going to be a conversation? There's a lot that you're. You're jumping around on, and that's fine. But I look at this. I don't know. I think a lot about. I read a lot of books. I listen to over 100 books a year. This year, I've already listened to 12 books. And I think a lot about how other people approach life. And we categorize people and we put ourselves in a category of who we are, and then we try to live up to that name. And it doesn't have to be like that. Like John Wooden, if you read Kareem and Me, Kareem Abdul Jabbar and his autobiography, and John Wooden and their relationship at ucla. John Wooden, his favorite sport was baseball. He knew every stat about baseball. He watched every game. He took. He took notes on all the. He knew Everything about baseball. And the guy was the winningest college basketball coach in history. And you would think it's like, John Wooden's a basketball guy. You say, no, John Wooden's actually a baseball guy. He said, well, maybe John Wooden's just a numbers guy. I don't know. But maybe John Wooden is whatever the fuck he wants to be, because it doesn't matter and nobody cares. Like, you do what you want to do in the public and do what you want to do in front of your tv. And do you. That's. That is the realest of the real. We all have it. We all have a public Persona that everybody is going to see. Well, make that what you want it to be. If you want to be the winningest coach, then be the winningest coach. It doesn't mean you have to watch basketball at home, though. And so the same thing. Yes, I'm absolutely a creative in the public eye. That's what everybody sees about me. Yo, dude, you stitch, you draw, you travel, you do videos, you do all this crazy stuff. Like, that's so cool. And I say, yeah. In front of my TV, though. I watch Twitter 247 and I'm a reply guy to Degens. [00:39:07] Speaker A: Right, Right. So, hey, I have that too. You feel I'm saying to Degens. [00:39:14] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. So, I mean, that was early days of Threads. That's why I built a following. In fact, Bark Meadow, when Bark was on Threads, I don't know if he's still on there, but he was the number one active growing account on Threads. And a ton of his Degen buddies came over to Threads and helped him build up his name and his reputation. So I launched the handle in secret. The reply guys, I still can get access to it. And I launched a fake podcast using AI voiceover of the top accounts, shouting out, here's the top. Here's the top accounts. You can find the reply guys on Thread still to this day. [00:39:51] Speaker A: I gave it to Josh, and then. [00:39:52] Speaker B: I gave it to Josh Ramos. And I was like, yo, just give me 10% if you build this up of any revenue. And he never. He didn't end up falling through. He did a couple episodes, but then he dropped off. But Threaded was like, I still think Threaded. Like, I still have this little bit of an itch right now to get back to Threaded. And I almost want to work with YouTube creators that have YouTube channels and like, blast them on threads through threaded and say, hey, this is like the next, you know, 2.0 thread age. Like, I want to interview you. I want To. I want to do. I want to do reaction videos to your posts. So, like, I want to. Look, I'm going to watch your YouTube video. I'm gonna tell you if it's trash. Like, I'm tell you where you lost me. I'm gonna tell you if your intro is good. I'm gonna tell you if your music volume suck. I'm gonna tell it. Like, I'll tell you what I think. I don't give a fuck what anybody says. Like, yo, this is trash. Nobody's gonna watch this shit, stop posting. You know what I'm saying? [00:40:38] Speaker A: So I like, I do. I like that idea. Yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:40:42] Speaker B: So anyways, I think, like, going back, I mean, there's so much that you said. Bitcoin, like, is going to replace gold, and it's like, it's not going to replace gold because we're not even on the gold standard anymore. You know, Like, RGP is based on oil. [00:40:54] Speaker A: It's going to replace gold, by the way. I don't. I. I'm of the belief that they. The two can move together. I think it's. I think just because bitcoin's market cap approaches gold's market cap, I think gold's market cap can still grow. And it is still growing. It just might not grow at the same rate. [00:41:11] Speaker B: Yeah. So I. And the other thing, when you think about cycles, and this is generally the. The folly of man is believing that we've got it figured out. And the one thing that's unpredictable with the folly of man is the folly of man. And so we all think like, oh, I've got it, I figured it out, I've cracked it. I know what it is. And just then men does something different and it's like, how is this possible? Well, it's possible because people see windows and opportunities and things that you don't. Because we generally stereotype the world through our viewer lens and say the world sees the world the way that I see the world. And the truth is, that's not true. Most people don't see the world the same way. We see it from our own perspective. That's just the way it's always been. So for everybody, that's like, yes, crypto is this and bitcoin is this, and this is the cycle. And here's how it works. Like, technically, yes, but that's not factoring in humanity. And humanity is unpredictable. If that. If there's one thing that's for sure is humanity is unpredictable. Wars are unpredictable, outcomes are unpredictable. And never underestimate the greed of the person on the other side of the table. People are greedier than you. And you may say, well, I'm a pretty greedy person. And be like, you'd be surprised. There's a lot of greedy people out there. And if they see money, they're swimming, they're in the water. [00:42:29] Speaker A: Honestly, I wish it was greedier. [00:42:31] Speaker B: They're in the water. Well, it's. It's not. It's not a green thing. It's just, what do you want in life? What do you want your life to look like and go get it. And one thing these djs have figured out is what they want their life to look like. They want lambos, they want yachts, and they want mansions. They don't give a what you think about that. They don't care. And they will make a bag. They'll turn 10k into 100k and 100k into a million, and they don't care. And then there's like, educated technical analysts that are trading the stock market that are like, these guys are crackpots. And it's like, I'm 30 years younger than you and can retire you right now. Right, right, right. So they don't care. It's like. And so is that the way to do it? I'm not saying that's the way to do it. I'm saying that's what's happening. People need to have. [00:43:10] Speaker A: I feel like people bury their heads in the sand when you're saying what you're saying. Because I again, going back to like, Gen X and boomers especially, they're like, it's not my problem anymore. You guys can figure it out. And another thing to our current president's credit is he's a boomer and he gets it. He's one of the people that actually gets it, which is probably why he was elected and is in the position that he's in right now. So it's not. That's, again, broad generalizations. I can't say all boomers, all X ers, all anybody. And there's probably people in your generation or younger that are like, I think of even. Let's look at our. I have a daughter, she's in college. She doesn't understand cryptocurrency. She doesn't get any. Like, she's not thinking about this stuff. She's like, still trying to wrap her mind or like, why I like the stock market if she cares, you know, other than just like investing in something. So it's like every generation, it's not. It's not generational, in a sense. It's broader than that. [00:44:07] Speaker B: No, no, it's. It's humanity. Everybody sees the world through their own lens and they want to believe what they want to believe, you know, and so when you think of like the adoption rate of crypto or bitcoin or any of that, it's. It's still in the, it's still in the early adopters in a sense of like, it is not mainstream. I don't care. Even if it's on Fox News or CNBC or whatever, it's not mainstream. People don't understand it. They don't know what it is. And I think it's really two camps. You have the ones that want to make money in meme coins and altcoins, the DGens. And then you've got like the devs. And the devs are highly committed to creating products on chain and decentralized applications. And they're like, yo, this is where the value is. And they're raising capital and they're trying to fund their projects. And then it's like these guys live in a basement, sweat and slave over code. And then these guys over here have dirty Cheeto hands and are sitting on a bag of a million bucks, you know, and they're like, right, I don't code, I don't program, but I get it when there's a meme I'm in and I flip it at the top, you know, So I think you have to. And again, and this is. I was going back to depending on what you're after in life, you're going to support your viewpoints with media with, you're going to surround yourself with or you're going to connect to media outlets that feed you what you believe you're not. If, if you are far left, you're not going to watch Fox News. If you're far right, you're not going to watch cnn. You just don't watch it because they're conflicting viewpoints from your belief system. They're designed that way. That's. It doesn't matter right or wrong. It's just you tap into that, that's going to validate your belief system. And so when you watch it, you're not asking questions, you're agreeing with the content. Yes, yes, Absolutely. Yes. Oh, 100%. Two totally different viewpoints. Just depends on what you want. What do you want to tap into? And so the same thing with crypto or meme coins or, you know, I said this last year when just randomly, before the election even happened, and we first talked, I was like, yo, I don't know where you're at, but just check out like watch World Liberty Financial because like this is low key. The devs are trash crypto people hated on it when it first launched. But these guys have this contractual like their contract. You have to be an accredited investor to buy it. There's a release date on how many they release and you can, you have to hold it for three years and there's no liquidity. You can't sell it. There's no secondary market. These guys are building wealth in defi and they're going to use it and they're going to use it for their advantage. And so like when you see what just happened is a precursor and they're driving people to wfli to world leadership. [00:46:45] Speaker A: I love that you. Let's bring it back around because this is like coming back because we went like we tend to do. We went a lot of different places but we started off with the Trump Coin. Trump Coin and the meme coins. And then I. You definitely brought it up to me and I had to hear it a few times. You were the first person that I heard it from was the World Liberty Financial w L F I and I am just now starting to wrap my mind around what that even is in the sense that that Is that on the Solana blockchain or is that so it's a developer that is it is it would it could be considered first level or it's not first level. It would it be considered. [00:47:22] Speaker B: Let's just pull this up real quick because you can't get this. [00:47:26] Speaker A: Is there something that I can log into like online that I can pull up and then we can look at it together? If I share this screen. [00:47:34] Speaker B: That's what I'm trying to pull up right now. [00:47:36] Speaker A: But if you give me the website, I'll pull it up and I'll share the screen. [00:47:40] Speaker B: WorldLibertyFinancial.com is what I'm pulling up. It's an Ethereum token. It's on the ethereum. I don't know which level. I don't know what they built this on. They've sold 22.46 billion tokens. [00:47:54] Speaker A: Okay, here we go. Can you see that on your end? Okay, so this is World Liberty. We're looking at the website for World Liberty Financial. It says, shape a new era of finance. Be defiant now. That's clever. That's a nice play there. We're leading a financial revolution by dismantling the stranglehold of traditional financial institutions. And putting the power back where it belongs in your hands. So here's my skeptics view on this is that, and this is, this might be even like Jamie Dimon slant on this is we have financial systems. So what is going to make a finance like in this case you just see Donald Trump. What's going to make a financial system that's controlled by Donald Trump any better than one that is. And I'm not saying he is controlling it, but he's got his picture on it, he's endorsing it, he's behind this in some way. What's going to make this more credible or not decentralized? It's supposed to be decentralized finance. But how is it decentralized if the President of the United States is its figurehead? [00:49:02] Speaker B: Great, great, great question. But because a majority of people don't understand how the fuck crypto works in decentralization it doesn't mean anything to them anyways. You're speaking a foreign language. How many people know who Jamie Dimon is and how many people know what the stock market is and how it works? Do you know the difference between an EFP and an eft? Right. [00:49:21] Speaker A: You know what, you bring up a great point. And this is exactly what I was thinking about with the coins. And this is, this is again not necessarily my argument but I could see somebody saying it is the people that are investing in this and I know not all of them. It's kind of like again it goes back to this kind of smart sophisticated people who under really understand what's actually happening and then everybody else that just needs something. [00:49:43] Speaker B: It's where you're wrong. It's very wrong. The people that are investing in this are not educated. They're accredited investors. They, that means they have a fuck ton of money. Accredited invest. To be an accredited investor in the United States, if you're single, you have. [00:49:58] Speaker A: To make $200,000 or a million liquid. Not including house. [00:50:02] Speaker B: Exactly. [00:50:03] Speaker A: And there's actually a way. [00:50:05] Speaker B: Okay, so. Well if you're a super accredited investor and you have 20 million in assets under management. [00:50:10] Speaker A: No, no, no, no, no, no. The third way is you can actually get a license. I forget what the number is, but you can actually do it through. [00:50:16] Speaker B: There's a $5 million limit as well. There's, there's three different ways you can do it. Right. $5 million pool as well. [00:50:21] Speaker A: So. [00:50:22] Speaker B: Right, right. The point is you are so technically sound and you know what very smart people talk about. They don't care if as long as they can make money. They don't care. I don't care. I don't care. How many people short the market that are really brilliant people? Are they bad people? No, they just make money. They don't care. Like, I just. I can make money. It's legal. There's no problem. How many loan sharks make money? A lot of people. A lot of people, they take equity, they flip people around like a washing machine. They don't care. They make money. So the move here, the move here. Where did I say? I think we're in the early adopter phase, right? Early adopters. Most people don't even know the fuck we're talking about. Okay? If that's the case and a majority of the early adopters are degens, degenerates, people that just want to make a bag. They went crazy on the Trump meme coin. You know what? They can't go crazy on wlfi. Why? Because if you're not an accredited investor, you can't invest in this. And that just shrunk the pool of degens that actually drive these things and understand it and know how this shit works away from the conversation so that it attracts all the people with money, institutional money, and the people that are close to Trump and say, you can get in on this, no problem, buddy. Hang on to it. And we're going to make some decisions down the road and I'm going to let you even closer to how I make my money. [00:51:54] Speaker A: That's very interesting because you bring up a good distinction. You can have a lot of money and not necessarily understand what's going on. Maybe you made a lot of money in something that you do understand and now you have to invest in something else. And just like people who give their money to a financial advisor and go like, I don't know how money works. I just know how to make it and I'm going to give it to you and you, you figure out how to make it grow. And I'm just going to make sure that you're making it grow somehow. So, like, this is very interesting, especially with the accredited investor. So I'm seeing the WL WL Fi token. Now. Where does the Trump coin fit in relative to the token? Is it going to be a currency on the. So how does it. It's just its own. It's just a meme. It's just like if, if he sold buttons that said vote for Trump or something. It's a Trump sticker that people bought. [00:52:41] Speaker B: Yes, Elvis Presley button. I hate Elvis. [00:52:44] Speaker A: Right, right. [00:52:45] Speaker B: Makes money. [00:52:46] Speaker A: Whatever makes so that's trending. So to me, the real money is the WLFI is where the institute. [00:52:55] Speaker B: Yeah, they're both real money. I mean, yeah, it's just one short term and one's long term. One's going to capitalize on the, on the wave right now of meme coins and the other one's going to capitalize on accredited investors that don't understand defi, but want a more professional route where they feel like they're secured and protected. And there's a, you know, there's a process, it's not as crazy and it keeps out all the degens. They've got a gate up that says if you can't, if you don't wear one of these pins, you can't make it in here and give us your money. [00:53:19] Speaker A: So here's something interesting because you brought it up. There's a three year lock period. That's how they keep people invested. You can't get out of it. It's like you, you, your money is locked up for three years. That's on the wlfi, not the Trump coin. So where does that money actually, like I'm trying to visualize the flow of money here. So the wlfi, are they getting the fees from selling the coin? Are they the ones making the million dollars in the fees? [00:53:47] Speaker B: Yeah, it's a separate entity. Like just read the fine print, just go through it. Just, you're going to have technical questions. Just go through. It's an, it's a separate LLC and they've done this before. But when they launch this, all the money flows in there and then they take the capital and then they go and buy altcoins. You can see the outflow. And they'll post this on wlfi. I think if you go to Twitter, like WLFI and Twitter, they'll show like where they put the money from wlfi. They allocate it into other altcoins and have holdings. So they're like accumulating Ethereum, they're accumulating Solana, they're accumulating. So it's like this is their gateway to raise capital to invest in other altcoins. It's insane. So they're literally like taking money from people and that like that they would have put into altcoins and then they're reinvesting it back into the altcoins that those people took their money out of it from. [00:54:36] Speaker A: Okay, should I be following? Do you follow World Liberty? Are you following? [00:54:40] Speaker B: Yeah, you gotta know, you gotta know what's Going on. [00:54:43] Speaker A: Oh, I see you. You're right there. [00:54:45] Speaker B: You gotta know what's going on, Mike. [00:54:47] Speaker A: All right, go follow Bandica too, on X. And while you're at it, follow me. I'm trying. I'm trying to build up some, some followers there. And I'm going to be posting stuff and content. So it's not just follow me and like, nothing's going to happen there. Keep me engaged here. All right, so this is interesting. So I'm going to follow them. I'm going to follow this. I think it's an interesting story. I'm going to stop sharing the screen now. I think it's interesting. There's a lot of big institutional things happening with regards to finance because there's this World Liberty story, which I'm just like now starting to wrap my mind around. And last year the news was the Texas Stock Exchange. And so now, like, other player, like, the way money is going to be dispersed and broken up in sources of power used to be like Wall street was the money center, right? And now Texas is going to give Wall street competition in terms of being a money center. And I don't know how much of that is politicized. I want to get into that aspect of it. And now we have this other entity with this World Liberty where it's like yet another kind of space that's going to be attracting large dollars, large amounts of capital. Do you see that? [00:56:00] Speaker B: I don't follow institutional money. Like, I'm not following the Texas stock. It's the first time I've heard about it. I don't, like, I don't think about institutional trading at all. Like, I don't look at. [00:56:10] Speaker A: I wrote an article. I'll send you the link to the one I wrote and the Texas Exchange because I think it's very interesting. [00:56:16] Speaker B: Stock exchange for commodities forever. [00:56:18] Speaker A: Like, it's not the Texas Stock Exchange. It's going to start trading in 2026. BlackRock is one of the big people behind it. And Citadel are the two major institutions that are now launching their own stock exchange. One of the things that this is a. This is a tangent, but one of the things that's kind of amusing is that story broke the same week as what's his name? Oh, my God, I'm going to blank on his name. Deep, deep value. Deep action value. Kitty came out and like, that was the whole GME meme thing. And that those were the two big kind of money stories that week. And because of the meme craze and now again, memes. So like that became the bigger story. And I'm thinking to myself, this is like under the radar, but it's a, like you said, institutional money. This is like real money competing with real money. It's not just like one centralized smart money power center. It's like now they're breaking off and there's going to be some level of competition at a larger scale. So like I kind of see world liberty somehow in a strange way, like as a, as an electronic, not electronic, but like a crypto, Cryptographic cryptography space. Again, like this big kind of. It's very interesting. I'm going to have to do more research in terms of world liberty. [00:57:41] Speaker B: I mean, it's built on scarcity. They only release so much, right. And you have to hold it for three years. So, so in that three year span, they can do whatever they want. It's no different than a Warren Buffett saying in the early days, if you were to invest in Berkshire Hathaway or one of his general partnerships, you couldn't take your money out for a year. There was limitations. And then you could potentially keep it in if you wanted to for the next fund. But it's no different. And because it's an unregulated space, there's a lot of things that are done with disclaimers but are the same thing. It's just, oh, because it's in defi. It's unregulated. So I can, I can do a lot of things. I can do a lot of things. And technically, you know, he's, he's not allowed to talk about crypto, something that he's personally invested in. And he talked about his meme coin on the, on, on news, on media. You just like. [00:58:27] Speaker A: But you said it. It's an unregulated space. Making himself one of the big players in that space. And he's in a position to, to influence regulation. [00:58:38] Speaker B: And he can pardon himself. He is above. It doesn't matter. It's okay, like I can get through this and I can get, and I can get past it and I can do whatever I want. And so ultimate authority is, you know, ultimate power is an interesting thing. And so we're seeing the steps that are being taken to ensure there's gatekeeping for the money, but that all the rich get richer in that sense. And they are finding ways already. And once the policy changes in its favor, it's a foot race. I mean, it's just money, money, money, money, money, money. [00:59:13] Speaker A: What do you do? People who are listening now, maybe there's some Accredited investors listening. But people who aren't accredited investors, like, again, kind of bringing it back to the regular, the regular person that just is managing their own money. They're hearing about the cryptocurrency space and they may be interested in allocating some resources there. Like, what is that person? What's, what's, what do you recommend to that individual? [00:59:39] Speaker B: Man, the challenge for me is that's a very general question. Right? Like, what do you do? Right. [00:59:46] Speaker A: Give me financial. I'm just asking you for financial advice. [00:59:50] Speaker B: Yeah, I don't, I don't give financial advice. You know, again, it comes back to what, what do you want in life? What kind of life do you want? Like, I want a quiet life. I don't, I'm not. I want a very simple life. I want a very quiet life. I want my meal service delivered. I want a cleaning service. And I can, I do that. I have it at. My life is set. Not because I, I need a bag. Not because I, I gotta, I gotta get in on something at the ground floor. That's greed. That's, that's like, yo, what can you design a life where, where it, it fulfills what you're after. And that's unique for every person. And so what the challenge is, if you're not clear on what you want. I know what I want. I don't need to do anything. But that's why I can live in this space and I can be in every conversation and be a reply guy and jump into every topic and go in every room and look at every meme and I don't give a damn because I'm not looking to get rich. [01:00:49] Speaker A: I'm with you. I'm with you in that regard in the sense that my drive for doing this, because I don't make any money from doing this by podcast. In fact, like, I've talked about this before. This is a, like a self project here. [01:01:00] Speaker B: Yeah, you should get money. You should get a partnership. You should do it. Yeah, we'll talk about it. [01:01:05] Speaker A: We'll talk about it. No, but, like, what I was going to say is I'm very intellectually curious. Like, I'm having these conversations with you because I like to, I want to. I'm more like, I don't care. I, it's weird to say because investing in trading and it's like you can't say you don't care about money. I have investments, I have trades happening. I, I like what I'm, what I'm trading and investing in, and I like my style And I like what I'm doing. I'm comfortable with it. To your point, like, I get what I'm doing, what I. Why I'm doing what I'm doing. But with this podcast it's offering me that, it's satiating that intellectual curiosity that I have. I just want to kind of understand how these things work. So, like, when I'm at a party and having a conversation with somebody, I can have an intelligent conversation, right? [01:01:48] Speaker B: And so for you, that. That's important to know, because that's what you want, right? You want the intellectual stim. Stimulation. Well, for most people in this space, they don't give a damn about intellectual stimulation, which will put you at odds with a community because you're like, but this is dumb. This is actually dumb. This is the name of this meme coin. Is Fartcoin the name? [01:02:15] Speaker A: Right? You're like, you're just not the market for that. I'm just not the market for that. Look, I got it. [01:02:20] Speaker B: No, that's not true. I wouldn't say that. I wouldn't say that. I wouldn't say you're not the market. I would say you're the exact market for this. In fact, you are so primed for this market because you've been taught technical analysis and you've looked at all the people that said, these people are dumb. And what you told me is the tell I want to be right. Well, let me tell you something. Get it on wlfi. Get it on some meme coins make a bag, and now all of a sudden, you're the smartest guy in the room because you were right. Not because of what you know, but because of what you did. And that's why I said, what you know doesn't matter unless if. If you take action on it. You can know everything and still be. Still be a dummy. [01:03:03] Speaker A: So I'm not. [01:03:04] Speaker B: I'm not a very brilliant guy, but I act on what I see. And I see the sentiment is meme coins are the most important asset in the world right now to a very small group of people. And when you've got millions for a small asset class, you better pay attention, because that's where revolutions happen. That's where the world changes. That's where a seed is planted that turns into a shit. The snowball. That's how Warren Buffett made his wealth. And so my favorite book, I'll just. This is like, one of the most important books you could own are the. The Letters to Shareholders, Berkshire Hathaway. I mean, it's this Fucking thick. You're. You're not going to get through it today. [01:03:43] Speaker A: That's awesome. [01:03:44] Speaker B: Yeah. Read a letter every night and learn about management. Learn about passive management. Learn about investments where you don't have an active role in operations. You want to be really smart. Learn from really smart people. And they are not on the news. They are actively in the trenches, as we would say in crypto. Or they documented how they became billionaires and left a blueprint. And so you just got to know. But for you, I think the space is so interesting because you're around really smart people. You're a doctor. You got to be smart. You can't be a doctor and be a dummy. So how do you take that and become a crypto doctor? And maybe that's your new handle, is Dr. Crypto. Right, the crypto adjustment. And it's like, listen, I never saw. [01:04:33] Speaker A: Myself as a crypto anything. I. I got bitcoin. I've been following Bitcoin since 2008. I was always a little bit interested in that for a long time, even though I didn't get actively put skin in the game until 2020. And it was a friend of mine that, like, kind of, like, cracked the door a little bit. He's like, oh, I. I just heard about, like, these. These crypto and like, these crypto investments. And I have somebody else, and he's got a license plate that says crypto guy or something. And. And then he's got, like, the Lambo and he's got all. So, so he kind of like. I was like, ah, it's garbage. I get bitcoin. The rest of it's garbage. And then, then in 2021, when I started to start getting. Diving deeper into the rabbit hole, I'm like, oh, this is kind of interesting. And I kind of get what people are doing here. And then I started to get interested in it and. And now, like, grok on X, if I start, like, if for some reason, like, there's an icon on there, if you hit grok, it'll tell you about yourself. Meaning, like, it takes what you've recently tweeted and talked about and kind of give a description of you. And so mine says a former chiropractor that does utilization review that's also into the crypto space. And I'm like, oh, that's my thing now. I'm the CR. Like, I'm a crypto guy. Crypto 1 to 3% of my portfolio. [01:05:52] Speaker B: That's your new name, dude. You'll never get your doctor crypto Right. [01:05:56] Speaker A: I don't think. I highly doubt first off, nothing. If it sticks, I'll be happy because at least something sticks. Yeah. Dr. Krypto, I always love talking to you. I'm so happy that it has always get a deeper understanding. Yeah, no, I'm not even trying to rush you off. I just want to like, kind of like tie it up now. And you always give. You always leave the listeners, I think, and I'm one of the listeners with something val like a valuable nugget before we close it out and like everything that we talked about. There's so many things in here. I love the book. I'm gonna buy that book because I think you're. You're right. Spot on. Like, why not the Oracle of Omaha? Why not see what the Guy did for 50 years and really, like, you know, enjoy that journey. If you're interested, if you're intellectually curious or if you're. You're want to see how the master of making money actually made his money. That. That's such a cool thing. So what. What would you like to leave our audience with today? [01:06:51] Speaker B: I think, I mean, this is advice from investors. This is probably well known, but the idea is, if you're investing is to buy what you hate and to build what you love as an entrepreneur. And I think a lot of times that we take the opposite approach and we buy what we love and we build what we hate. It's like, like, hey, like, why don't you create a life that you love and invest in things that you probably don't care about? Because those are the ones that seem to be the most important things in the world. Right? Like who's the billionaire that made towels and sold them to Walmart? You know, like, it doesn't matter. But if, if the goal is profitability and money, invest in what you hate and just know that, that there's money there. If, if the sentiment is there and the numbers say it's true, it is. It doesn't matter how you feel about it. [01:07:43] Speaker A: Invest in what you hate and do what you love. [01:07:47] Speaker B: Build what you love. [01:07:48] Speaker A: People, I love it. Build it. Build it. Build it. [01:07:50] Speaker B: Create. [01:07:51] Speaker A: I love it. Always love having you on, Andrew. And I know it's not going to be our last time and we're going to have like, we're going to figure out because like you said, it's becoming kind of a regular thing with you and I, so I'm going to have to do some kind of segment. But then who are you? You got to be somebody important. In this doctor, you're like, let's do it, bro. You be the mad scientist. [01:08:14] Speaker B: Let's do it. [01:08:15] Speaker A: All right. All right, man. Thank you, everybody, for listening. I hope you got some nuggets on this. I definitely did. And Andrew, Stan, you know, we'll touch base at the end of this. And yeah, we'll see you all on the next one. Bye. Thank you for watching this episode of the Money Adjustment. If you want more, like comment and subscribe, you can follow me on X at Mark Kramer until the next episode. Stay healthy and wealthy.