Understanding Bitcoin's Price Cycles

[00:00:00] Speaker A: If you want to get messed up, make a lot of money and then sit down with yourself and realize you can't actually be with yourself because all you, you don't know anything other than business, dude. Like just so everyone, no matter how much money they have, I'm never. I've yet to meet any perfect people. I haven't. I don't care how many zeros you got, dude? I have not met any perfect people. Okay? Everybody's got something to work on and bitcoin's just offered me, it's offered me the time to look at. Wow. I have done a lot of things in my life or stupid waste of time and I did them because of this. Hey, I, I have to have a career. [00:00:37] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:00:38] Speaker A: No one needs a career. Everyone needs a passion, okay? Everyone needs a passion. You're not going to show me anybody that's unhappy that has a passion. No one needs a career. You need a passion. [00:00:53] Speaker B: Hello, welcome to the Money Adjustment. I'm your host, Dr. Mark Kramer, D.C. i am a chiropractor who loves investing and trading. Are you interest in what's moving markets and your money? Great. Let's get started. [00:01:10] Speaker A: I like getting on a private jet, dude. Flying wherever the hell I want to, hanging out with whoever, doing whatever. That's freedom, man. I have no interest in these, these anchors. I don't want a 30 year career. Who pitched and who bought the story that a 30 year career would be fun? Who would do that, man? Okay, like they bought it. My entire generation bought this when I got out of school. I'm like 20 years in one space. Like you'll, you'll know everything you need to know if you want to. And three, I mean they're in an industry you can't figure out, even medicine, man. You could be a great after your schooling and everything, right? So 10, 12 years. I mean you become an expert at almost everything. So you know, freedom to me, people don't ask freedom people. And this is how this has got me kind of into this whole spiritual thing. Well, it didn't really get me. I've always been like more interested in my spiritual, my own freedom than I have been money. Money's not really. I mean, people think I'm really into money. I'm really not. I rarely look at my accounts. It's not my barometer, you know, how do I feel about myself? [00:02:22] Speaker B: Ladies and gentlemen, I am so happy to have back on with me the great man, Gary Cardone. If you don't know who he is, Google him. He's Doing a lot of stuff. And one of the things that I did not do with Gary last time that I would like to do this time with Gary is, Gary, have you ever groked yourself? [00:02:44] Speaker A: No, I haven't. [00:02:46] Speaker B: All right, so I'm going to. I'm going to grok you right now. Yes, sir. Let's see, let's see what, let's see what grok has to say about you. [00:02:54] Speaker A: Please, please. Can't wait to hear this story. [00:02:57] Speaker B: Gary Cardo at Garycard is a seasoned investor since 1986. Passionately debates Bitcoin's legal definitions and warns against chasing quick crypto wins, advocating for long term wealth and spiritual growth. Gary's rallying Europe, debating Trump's impact and eyeing gold and bitcoin's historic highs with a sharp take on global politics. The X community praises Ericardone for his insightful bitcoin discussions and genuine engagement with Mike Mack, noting his openness in interviews. So there's one last thing, Gary here. It gives. It gives a tweet. I don't know if it's a recent one or just one they highlighted for you, but it said, it says, someone much wiser than me once said, it's easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God. Whoa, that's deep. [00:03:59] Speaker A: Well, I didn't. I was just. I was just saying, you know, something that a preacher, a priest told me once when I was seven years old, and it shocked me. [00:04:07] Speaker B: Yeah, you want to get. Should we go into that or should we just jump into bitcoin stuff? [00:04:13] Speaker A: You just. I'm your guest. You. You lead the way, my friend. [00:04:16] Speaker B: Yeah, I will. So, like, one of the reasons I reached out to you again is because I was watching Gary debates. And for the audience, if you're not watching these, you got to start watching these debates, Gary. Very passionate people on, very intelligent people on. And the topics change from week to week. And it's a very interesting panel. And one of the reasons we're gonna. [00:04:38] Speaker A: Have to have you on there, buddy. [00:04:40] Speaker B: I know I'm not. It's funny. I watch it and I'm like, I'm not much of a debater, although I think I'm the kind of person, I go with the flow. Like, if you threw me in the environment and I knew enough about the topic, I would, I would run with it. So. But I had you on, or I reached out to again to come on and discuss this, because the one I watched was awesome. If you guys haven't watched this one is the what is bitcoin? And in that debate Darkside is who I know. And then you had other people within the financial space that I may, I'm less familiar with but they were all really intelligent. I know British Hodl was on there. He's someone I'm familiar with. And there were other people who just clearly knew a lot about the financial space. And it was a really interesting conversation because it talked about like this broad universe of bitcoin and it, and the, the heart of the debate was self custody versus versus all the other, let's just call it paper bitcoin. So there's self custody which is the actual owning actual bitcoin and then now there's all of these derivatives that are evolving around the, the asset. And just made me think how broad the universe is for bitcoin itself. And then I was thinking how I was thinking about bitcoin spaces. I'm new to the bitcoin spaces. I jumped on your spaces probably maybe six months ago or something and just listening in. And then the more I listened, the more I wanted to listen because these are just some of the brightest minds in general. And when you start getting into various topics that are impacting our world today and this is specifically on bitcoin, but I know there's other areas and in fact another one I see you on daily is the financial spaces in the morning. [00:06:27] Speaker A: Yeah, It's a good space to get, you know, a macro perspective on what's going on. Plus they cover a lot of energy there. And I'm very interested in the energy complex because of my background. [00:06:38] Speaker B: Sure. [00:06:39] Speaker A: And, and I think energy is the, is the thing. Right. It's going to be the key player and whether we're a first, second or third world nation. But that's been very informative for me because you're talking about a lot of people are coming together that are really experts in various fields and we're learning how to communicate with each other in a way that, I mean there'll be a couple thousand people in a room listening to this is becoming their morning financial news. Right. Instead of the skew of having Procter and Gamble be your major or Pfizer be your major advertiser and you're having breaks every 10 minutes for advertisements and selling this and selling that. This is like non stop an hour and a half of finance. Having said that, you know, spaces is also discovering that people can pop up here and they can misrepresent who they are. So people have to really do Their due diligence and who they're listening to. Most people that have something that they're proud of are not going to be, it's not going to be hard to find it. And you should go verify what these people, not only what they're saying, but who they are, what their background is and just do your due diligence. Because just because somebody sounds like they know what they're talking about does not mean they know what they're talking about. [00:07:59] Speaker B: That's valid. And you. [00:08:00] Speaker A: This will get washed out. This will get washed out real quick though. This industry will just self clean. This is going on in spaces right now. You're actually seeing people lose. You know they're being discovered as fakes. You can only talk bullshit for so long on these spaces until people go, hey, you're, you don't make any sense. You're not consistent. [00:08:17] Speaker B: That's an interesting point. That's an interesting point. Like I'm just thinking of different names that come to mind. Like one of the things with the space outside of the finance one. I, I'm going to say this real quick because I want to, I don't, I'm not, I don't want to lose the train of thought on this because of your background in energy and how tightly woven energy is into bitcoin. And I can't say that I could speak to this intelligently whatsoever because I, I don't really follow the energy space. But, but I know that bitcoin requires some degree of energy, energy consumption. And then what I hear when they advise, oh, what should young, you know, they're always telling what, what should young people get into outside of artificial and cryptocurrency, which are the two hottest fields. Arguably there's the existent field of energy. And energy and bitcoin are really so tightly woven. What's your opinion on that? [00:09:08] Speaker A: Well, it is tightly woven but for me the energy complex is more of. You know, people were commenting today, they were, they were complaining about the energy markets but in fact the energy markets are probably the most progressive open and only really open markets we have have on planet Earth today. And by energy I mean oil and natural gas to be a little bit less so even though it's a product from the natural gas in the, in the oil, all these prices are coming down. They have been coming down for 30 years. Crude oil is at 65. I think crude oil will be a $40 product in our, in your future and it'll be stable at 40 and producers will make money at 40. Natural gas will be $3 or below. Everyone's saying all this demand's going to be here will there'll be a lot of demand for electricity. But people tend to forget that we're moving into a technological age. And when we move into this particular technological age, a digital age, all everything's going to have to keep up. So some of the inventions that have been sidelined, put in a back in a vault for 30 years, that could have actually helped a lot of energy solutions. But the impact of those revolutionary inventions would have probably disrupted the entire fossil fuel market. So I just think that technology, look, the US Producing community and energy is the most efficient producer in the world of energy. Now when did we become really great at that? We became great at that at $30 crude oil, not at 100, not at 70. We became great when prices, when there was too much supply and there was not enough demand. Producers don't stop drilling. Miners are not going to stop mining bitcoin. They went to school to do this. This is their lives. They don't think about economics. They think about drilling. And then the management team's job is to figure out, hey, you guys may like to drill, but like, we're not drilling at a profit. They figured out how to make oil at 40 bucks profitable. And that only will improve. It's not like we're gonna run out of supply. The lie of peak oil is absolute, complete lie. Daniel Yergen created a great career in an industry pitching every prime minister on the planet this peak oil concept. The truth is we have peak consumption and you're seeing it right now. You go look at the Rolex watch market, you go look at the yacht market, the helicopter market, the private jet market. Rich people don't need any more of these things, do they? Already have all of them. You just get, we're 30 years into consuming everything. I have so much stuff here that like a hundred years ago, we did not all take hot showers every day, take two baths a day. Man. This is a luxury. And I think it's my God given fucking right. And a hundred years ago, you know, you're living better than any king ever outside of the king of England. Really, man. [00:12:21] Speaker B: I believe, I believe that. And I feel like what you're alluding to when you said we are like wealthy people are kind of maxed out in stuff. Like how much more stuff can we have? And when I heard you say that, I'm like, that's where I feel like bitcoin starts to jump in here in terms of preservation of wealth. Is that, where is that? [00:12:45] Speaker A: Well, I'm going a number of different directions. One, I look at the oil complex and the reason I said that it's the most efficient market in the world. It is the only open, free market we have on planet Earth. The credit card industry is not free. The gasoline market is not an open market. The pharmaceutical market is most certainly a Cartel. Visa and MasterCard owns 72% of all the credit cards. Let's see, there's four banks that have any real control here. There's a bunch of intermediaries, but they're not banks. So you've cobbled up in the 1980s a bunch of analog players who are at best grossly inefficient. First, Eric Cartel. You know, when, when you create vaccines, when four companies create vaccines and they all kill people, you kind of start asking yourself, hey, is there a cartel here? If you read the book called the Myth of Free Markets, I can't remember the guy's name that wrote it around here somewhere, but it's a total myth, okay? I've literally lived my whole life believing that I was living in a capitalist system and that capitalism would allow a guy like me to work and that no one would call me out if I hit a single, went to first base, made it to first base and stole second. Legally, nobody would call me out. This is not true. They change the rules all the time. If you're not in the club, you're never going to be invited to the club. This is my point. Oil, I believe oil is, and natural gas are the most efficient markets in the world. Not because I came from there, but because one, I went a disruptive period there. Regulation. It is truly geopolitical in so many ways. It's like Bitcoin in that you are not going to stop a barrel of oil coming out of Iraq or coming out of Israel or coming out of Russia and moving somewhere. Once it's on a boat, it's moving, okay? That barrel is going to move and it's going to find a home somewhere and you can embargo the shit out of it, but until you get to do nanoparticles, one crude oil barrel looks like another crude oil. Barrel, barrel. So BP's crude oil from Iraq burns exactly the same as. And it's not all the same, okay? But my point being is first world nations are determined about the price of oil, how much you have. And the price of oil is priced every day, transparently. The price of natural gas is priced every day on 30 day cycles. And the price of Electricity is priced on the half hour in an incredibly open market. Even though you have opec, people will have heard of opec. A group of production, sovereign producing companies that all came together to control the price of oil. Hasn't worked ever. Then they do OPEC plus and now they're doing another top 10 OPEC. Look, these cartels don't work. And this is where I'm getting to my perspective of watching the oil markets going, wow, the oil markets are efficient. ExxonMobil makes 12% return yet Visa, MasterCard and some of these banks make 50% gross margins. For doing what? For doing nothing. And these guys are losing their lives shooting holes in the ground, okay? Producing a product that quite frankly. And I'll get to my next point. Peak consumption. No one's going to be buying $180,000 cars in the future. They're going to be 20 and 12, okay? They are, they're going to be robot cars. You're not going to be using fuel the way we use it. Our technology is going to get better on how we heat and cool. Bitcoin mining is already showing that Canada shit, dude, quit buying heaters. Mine bitcoin, heat your basement. You now have a heated sauna room if you want one. Or a pool. Okay? Is that really, really efficient? No, but they're finding ways to offset extreme prices. If Canadian prices go to German prices or the highest electricity prices in the free world. Seventeen hundred dollars a meg. Okay? This is like, that's bankrupts Germany, obliterates Germany. So what will they do? They will issue big treasury bonds, nuclear. All of Europe will go, hey, we're going to just issue a trillion dollar nuclear bond and we're going to go nuclear because they have no resources. You're going to watch Europe fall because they have no resources. They got rid of all their fossil fuels, they got rid of all drilling. They made it regulatory prohibitive to participate there. And they've run away every resource they have. They have nothing. They don't produce anything except canary wharf that does the banking and they've given that up. So I started looking at all these paradigms going on and go, wow, the oil guys couldn't keep it together. And we have a military behind them, okay? And you cannot control. See, this is how markets work. That market is so big, even the US military cannot control price. In fact, you've seen it. People disrupt a refining, two days later, the whole market's right back. Nobody's even scared about disruptions anymore. COVID 19 taught us that we could move Shit all over the place planet if we had to, without even knowing it was coming. Now, I think the supply chains, all the inflation that occurred in the last three years, 80% of it was because of intervention by warmongers. Blowing pipes up, man, okay? Slapping embargoes, sanctioning people and all their resources. This is not going to work in the future. This is global market, man. And you want these billionaires moving money around? So how are they going to move money around? The old system. The old system is falling apart, okay? It's full of crime, it's full of abuse, it's full of opacity. By opacity, I mean the inability to, from a simple man like me, to be a Visa shareholder and not be able to look into the books of Visa and really understand how they make so much damn money is perplexing to me, okay? That tells me I'm not an angry guy. But I'm looking at Visa's docs and going, wow, I cannot see how they make $50 billion a year. Like, are they gangsters or what are they doing? Because they take zero risk. And then you just go on and look at all of these companies. Amazon, you got Netflix, who I just canceled. Because, like, you guys deliver trash, man. And you're supporting. These companies are now supporting. Political processes that has become church and state are, like, so fuzzy. So I want a free market, and if I can have a free market, this leads me to Bitcoin very, very quickly because it becomes a defensive posture for me without me becoming defensive. Because I don't think you gain any territory by being defensive. But I am allowed to, like, get him, put bitcoin around me like Kevlar. And if I'm willing to hold for four years, I think I become impervious to attacks. And the more bitcoin weight I add to myself and get rid of the fiat Stu stuff that's controlled by monopolist for some reason. This may not make sense because we're talking about a lot of different subjects, but my gravity, the friction I have in my universe that drives you and I to do certain things that we normally would not do. Let me give you an example. Do you really want to go that extra three miles for 3 cents a gallon discount? Like, I never look at the price of gasoline, okay? Like, I'm just going to go to the place that's convenient. That's the life I want to live. I do not want to be going, oh, I got to save 3 cents here, okay? That's not living. So I get I get defensive by one. Oh, wow, my money, my energy is degrading. I'm getting old. I don't have as much good energy as I had when I was 20. Now when I was 20, the problem was my energy is like my hair all over the place. And the bitcoin has allowed me to just go because I know there's a problem. Dude, when I have to buy a Range Rover and it cost 160 GS, it's like, man, that car better be awesome. And by the way, it's not. So guess what? They go through their cycle, their price becomes so bad, so high relative to the quality, their demand goes off. And this is where we're at. Now by this gravity thing, I mean bitcoin. And remember, the key is I have to hold it for four years. You might get lucky and hold it only for 18 months, but if you hold it for four years, what has happened to me is that I don't go to meetings today that I used to go to because I had to go to them four years ago. It was a. I don't have enough room between me and the inflation of ground zero. And now what I'm finding is I'm able to control my time much better. Right. And my whole job was just stack as much bitcoin as possible. It's an anti gravity, anti time machine, I'm telling you. See, that's the conversation I would love to have one day with someone. How is this an anti gravity anti friction? It's like a. Yeah, it's like taking NAD plus and every day, I don't know, it's it. You, you become immune to. The only thing I'm, I'm not going to be immune to a health problem, but I'm also not going to be immune to the insanity of this planet. And in many ways bitcoin's actually created me, created a bit of a problem. It's given me the time to actually look around and observe what's going on this planet. It's quite concerning, I must say. [00:23:04] Speaker B: Yeah. As I'm hearing you speak, I just keep thinking freedom. And I remember when I was on one of your spaces and I was telling you the story about how I had more bitcoin four years ago than I have today because I didn't hold that. I didn't fully grasp what you're describing now and I didn't fully, for lack of a better term, convert until this year where I really saw, I'm starting to value things from the bitcoin standard and that is a real mind shift. Because now when I think about something as simple as owning a home, you save up in fiat or dollars, and you're saving up, and you're saving up. And the problem is, as you're saving, this is where inflation comes in. The price of that home just keeps getting more and more expensive. So you're trying to outpace something that you can't. The system is not set up, really. I mean, I, I mean, this sounds conspiracy theorist, but it's not set up for you to win. And so then I look at an asset like Bitcoin, and I love that there's like that meme that floats around where it's, where it's like this home, this 500. Let's just say a $500,000 home would have cost you 20 bitcoin, however many years ago it was, and now that same $500,000 home would only cost you less than 5 bitcoin. And so it's a deflationary asset. So when people talk about saving, savings, technology, that's where it's like, I get chills. I'm like, oh my gosh, this is what people have been trying to do. We, we take money in the stock market, we put our money in real estate, we put our money in all different investments, and we assume a lot of risk, we assume a lot of additional expense, and then in the end, we're barely keeping pace with inflation. So in terms of purchasing power down the road, when we actually want to use the money that we've saved, we've made very little progress versus a bitcoin standard where you see something that is now time tested of 15 to 16 years, and you're seeing an annual CAGR of 86% per year. And that's a. Assuming that you do hold the four years, that's the key component is like, if you decide if, if you're, if you're going to play this game, and that's not a huge time commitment either. Four years. You know, real estate investments, sometimes they don't stabilize for five years or six years, seven years, or 10 years. So it's like if you, if you have the foresight and you, you change to that, change your thinking, then in four years, you'll be able to buy more. Because what you've saved in, what you've stored your energy in is actually worth more in the future and not less. [00:25:41] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, I think that's right. Now, you know, just a point on your real estate commerce comment. Real estate never stabilizes, really, because you have to feed it, okay? You have to feed it. Somebody asked me once when I was had a plane. They said, hey, how much does fuel cost? I said, I have no clue. And he's like, what do you mean you don't know? I said, I don't know, it's around 2,500 bucks an hour or something like that. And you see my point? He's worried about the fuel. And I'm like, bro, the plane doesn't is worth nothing without the fuel, okay? Like, you can have a plane all you want, but if you can't afford $30,000 fuel, then probably not your deal, right? It's useless. So my point is the house requires maintenance. It requires, you know, I drove up to my little nice house the other day, I saw paint being ripped off the side of the wall, right? I like it requires time, attention. There's no house you sit on for four or five, 10 years and it's not requiring time and attention at the end of your days. Let me tell you the time and the attention. I have no interest in being a painter on a house. Dude, this is back to the hey, do I want to drive down the street and save $3.03 on some gasoline? I don't want to be a plumber, okay? I want to spend my time learning things. Now people get to decide. Oh, you get that? People get married, two weeks later, they go buy a house and they wonder why their freaking marriage like lost all its possess. Like, well, you know Dr. Mark Kramer's no longer Mr. Sexy Mark Kramer. Dude, the guy's like, you're bitching that he stinks, but he's up on the roof cleaning the roof. And by the way, he ain't a roof guy. Okay? Then you Sunday, you spend a day day in the hospital and you wonder, oh, wow, love this white picket fence. Really? I like getting on a private jet, dude, flying wherever the hell I want to, hanging out with whoever, doing whatever. That's freedom, man. I have no interest in the, these anchors. These anchors. I don't want a 30 year career. Who pitched and who bought the story that a 30 year career would be fun? Who would do that? Okay, like they bought it. My entire generation bought this when I got out of school. I'm like 20 years in one space. Like you'll, you'll know everything you need to know if you want to. And three, I mean, they're in an industry you can't figure out. Even medicine, man, you could be a great after your schooling and everything, right? So 10, 12 years I mean, you become an expert at almost everything. So, you know, freedom to me, if people don't ask. Freedom, people. And this is how. This has got me kind of into this whole spiritual thing. Well, it didn't really get me. I've always been, like, more interested in my spiritual, my own freedom than I have been. Money. Money's not really. I mean, people think I'm really into money. I'm really not. I rarely look at my accounts. It's not my barometer. I. You know, how do I feel about myself? If you want to get messed up, make a lot of money and then sit down with yourself and realize you can actually be with yourself. Because all you. You don't know anything other than business, dude. Like, just so everyone, no matter how much money they have, I'm never. I've yet to meet any perfect people. I haven't. I don't care how many zeros you got, dude. I've not met any perfect people. I've met a lot of. Mostly. Mostly I don't meet any perfect people. Okay. Everybody's got something to work on. And bitcoin's just offered me the way I've done bitcoin has offered me a. It's offered me the time to look at. Wow. I have done a lot of things in my life that were stupid. Waste of. I mean, waste of time. And I did them because of this. Hey, I. I have to have a career. [00:29:42] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:29:42] Speaker A: No one needs a career. Everyone needs a passion. Okay. Everyone needs a passion. You're not going to show me anybody that's unhappy that has a passion. No one needs a career. You need a passion. [00:29:56] Speaker B: Yeah. Okay, you bring up an interesting point there, because I think to myself when you said, we wind up wasting our time doing things. So I wound up down this rabbit hole because I started retail trading. I, like, I'm positioning this whole podcast as a retail. I'm a retail trader. And I'm lucky that I. I gained some insight from professionals here and. But it's that whole when. When you talk about waste of time. So we talked about, like, how much bitcoin I had 4 years ago versus how much time I had today and how much time I spent day trading or swing trading. And I could have done none of that and just held on to the. What I had in bitcoin and just saved myself a lot of heartache and trouble. And I would have been better off in the end. So. So just having that four years to witness a full cycle and to have skin in the game for a full cycle because I' watching bitcoin for a long time, but I didn't have skin in the game until this 2020 cycle. And then I got to witness a whole, you know, having and then what happens after the having and then what Then a crypto winner. So I sat through a crypto winner and that was part of like I didn't sell all my bitcoin because I still was like had faith in the asset. I just position sized it. I downsized my position because I didn't. I'm like, I'm in a crypto winner. I'm already like, I'm, I'm underwater. Because at the time my cost basis was like 30 and it dropped down to 15k and because, and so I'm like, okay, I'm underwater but I get it's a volatile asset and it's a small position. But if I now that I have survived for lack of a better term a full cycle, which kind of my head then goes to, you know, are we, how many more, how many more of this four year cycle do we have? Because that's an interesting debate that continues to happen. That might be a good Gary's debate. Because actually if you want to have me on a Gary's debate, I would do one because I, I tend to, I, my background's in psychology. I got my degree in mental health and I started working in the mental health field when I was younger. So I'm kind of like you in the sense I've been more, I consider myself a spiritual person. I don't talk about it, I don't care to because I, you know, we all have our belief systems in that regards. It's one of the reasons I think I, I really enjoy your I am because you're just like an authentic human being just dealing with the realities and a lot of people, at least 5,000 people a week resonate with that. But in terms of a debate four year cycle and having that psychology background, I just look at more of. I think one of the reasons I even I poo poo the trading and everything but I still do it because I like it. But I do it as a hobby form and not so much as a. Like I know this isn't the way to build wealth, but I like it because it's collective psychology. You're looking at the collective what when people price determines the value of money. But when you, when you're looking at at price it is showing it is a metric of psychology. And so when you're seeing sentiment change as price Changes. And you're witnessing these things, I think from a psychological perspective, I'm just very curious in that regard. And so when I look at the four year cycle, I come at it from that vantage point of. Because I'll hear like I had dark on originally, you know, four months ago. And he was talking about. Because he kind of shocked me when he said it. He's like, no, that's dead. Dead. And I'm like, you think the four year cycle is dead? And he's like, yeah, it's dead. Very confidently saying that. And I'm like, why, why do you think that? And he starts talking about hash rate and then he goes into details that things that I don't, to be honest, I don't understand. And so like I hear people's arguments and they use, they use whatever metric they're using to tell you why they think the four year cycle is no longer relevant. You know, institutional adoption. Okay. Institutions are too invested now for. So the four year cycle's over. Assuming the four year cycle isn't dead. And now there's debate on that. Recently I've been, It's just flat without saying it's dead. Yeah, so, so I saw it was dead because now that institutions are in, that's. Now that retail isn't in control necessarily of the narrative of what's happening with bitcoin, that four year cycle ideology is no longer the case. [00:33:54] Speaker C: We're still that and we're down to 3.125 bitcoin per block per 10 minutes. Right. So the amount of supply that's entering the market is so small and the amount of institutional buying is so large that the concept that you're going to have some type of, you know, supply crunch where you have too much supply and every four years that supply gets halved and miners go bankrupt. I just don't see it. I don't think it plays anymore. You know, I just don't. I think that you have nation states, sovereign nations now mining bitcoin. You have mining companies that are hodling bitcoin. They're not even selling the bitcoin they mine. So I, I just think that the, the, the, the underlying thesis of the four year cycle has been completely broken. [00:34:39] Speaker B: So I appreciate that. And as of today, we're entering into the fourth quarter of 2025. So if the four year cycle is, still has some kind of gravitas, we're going to know soon enough, we're going to know in three to six months whether the four year cycle is confident. If we're still confident in that four year cycle or not. But I kind of tend to believe that the four year cycle isn't dead from a psychological perspective. Still have in their nervous system and their psychology that this is an asset that runs on four year cycles. And some of it is just wishful thinking in the sense that man, now that I really appreciate the value of bitcoin and I'm hungry to accumulate, I want there to be another crypto winter because guess what I'm going to be pouring my money into in the next winter. So I'm hoping that the four year cycle isn't dead so that it can really do this thing right this next assuming there's going to be another four year cycle. So I like that, I like the rhythm and the cadence of it. And being a health healthcare professional and an academic and a student and things, things are in four year cycles. Presidents, presidential cycles are in four year cycles. School years, there's four years of high school, there's four years of college. Things tend to run in four year cycles. So I take this kind of circadian rhythm. Circadian rhythm is like our body has a natural rhythm to it and I broaden it in a macro perspective and I say maybe there is this psychological circadian rhythm to the bitcoin cycle and then people, even though the numbers get large, do I think we're going back to K? Heck no. Do I think we could retest the lows of maybe this recent cycle? Maybe, maybe not. So here's the interesting thing with the four year cycle. I love your take on this. I could see us running from here 250, 250k before we see any kind of pullback. So to, to just wait because this is what I did wrong too. This last cycle is even though I kept what I had, I wasn't accumulating enough during the crypto winter and I kept even at 15k. I'm like maybe it'll come back into 12k or 13. Because when it was trading because of the FTX scandal, it was trading in that low levels and, and the sentiment was about as bearish as could be. And it was like Risk was back in Risk meaning that this thing could actually really go to zero again. And people had that kind of level of fear. Especially people didn't fully understand it. They were. Or the people that understood it, like me who didn't see it going to zero. But I kept waiting for a better entry. Even at 50k, 15k. I'm like, oh, I'm looking at the charts. You Know, maybe I could get 12k. Maybe I can get that. And just playing the. Those like honestly, dumb games. If you take a more macro view on it, like even now I'm still accumulating at 110k and in the hundreds, even though I could see it going back to 80. And the only reason I'm still accumulating is because I don't know for sure it's going to go back to 80 and I don't know what it's going to go up to before it comes back in. So we could go to 250k, 300k and then go into a crypto winter. But that crypto winter is going to be the low of whatever we end this cycle on, which could be 2,200k or, you know, using big number numbers. Let's just say it's not. Let's just say we're capped out at 130k. I have an interesting chart that if you're interested, I'd love to share with you because I know you're a chart guy and I have a chart that is like, you just see where it hits. And the chart for me is telling me something in terms of I. I see 130k is going to be both a psychological level and a technical level. Because if that level gets broken on a vertical line, are you okay with me showing you this chart or now I'm going all over the place. I know you're like a chart guy, so this, this. [00:38:15] Speaker A: I'm not, I'm not. I really don't know charts, but I mean, I like to look at them, but. [00:38:20] Speaker B: Right. This is visually. So I can just illustrate here. I haven't shown this to anybody and I don't talk about these things because that's not, you know, just not my. Typically not my thing. But let me see if I could share the screen with you because I think it's going to illustrate the point that I'm making here. Sor. Gary, it's my first not, not. [00:38:42] Speaker A: I'm not in a rush, buddy. I got an hour. [00:38:44] Speaker B: All right, cool, cool, cool. I haven't shown this to anybody, so I'm kind of geeking out over here because I'm like, I want to show this to somebody that would actually care to look at it without going. [00:38:53] Speaker A: Get me excited, man. Don't, don't, don't. Don't get me all. [00:38:57] Speaker B: I really am. [00:38:58] Speaker A: Don't get me all jacked up. [00:39:00] Speaker B: Okay, Whatever. While I'm trying to pull this up, Gary, what are your thoughts on the Four old year cycle. [00:39:05] Speaker A: Look, I think there's going the four year cycle per bitcoin. What if, what if, what if people just came up with that and and, and it happened once and they were like okay, this is a four year cycle based on the mining rate and this will continue ad infinitum. Which is just not true. It's already broken. Okay. The bitcoin price. This cycle completely destroyed the old four year cycle. I don't even believe. I don't think this has anything to do with the hash rate or the mining rate. I think this has to do with the. By the four year cycle the having awesome may have had some impact in the first four years. Six, eight maybe once you got to 16 million coins we're done. As long as you don't start puking bitcoin and change the output it on a daily basis. On that cycle there is not enough bitcoin being mined to be even relevant now. It's not like what you guys really going to be waiting for. Oh wow, we're going to mine 0.333 million Bitcoin in the year 100. [00:40:16] Speaker B: I mean so you're talking about it mostly from a supply side. [00:40:20] Speaker A: Like we've money flows. Flows are important. You know the presidential cycle is important. The cycles of we're going through. I think we're going through an 80 or 90 year cycle right now. There's cycles on top of cycles. I mean bitcoiners are extremely myopic sometimes and everyone is. Bitcoiners tend to see the world as everything is revolving around on them. And all of this has cycles man. Like, like watch what happens to half the Fortune 500 companies in 20 years. They will not be here. 80% of those companies are gone history by see you later. 80% of them aren't even making any money. I mean hardly without debt there they have debt. Colossal amounts of debt debt. If we're going it's been 1929 was the last depression. We had a clean out, a flush out, a diarrhea moment, a awakening. An awakening. And then we all got lazy again. See we worked our ass off. 1933 everybody got rough and tough and now 100 years later we're soft. We watch Netflix and don't know how to dig a hole in the ground. $100,000 automobiles when we make 70 grand a year. So I think retribution is showing up. Dude, the cy. Hey, pay the maker. You know we're going to have to pay for all our debt at some point. And the debt isn't we don't have to pay off all this debt. You're never going to pay off $40 trillion. That is not possible. Okay? Much less 400 trillion. So these are just numbers. It's just a little drama game. The question is going to be where are you in the drama? Am I above the drama or am I in it? Am I a. An effect of the drama or do I have some control to at least be able to pick up my wallet and get the out of town if everybody goes crazy and you cannot tell me that you can, you can look, listen, if you can look around in your county, state or country and say you feel awesome about what's going to happen the next four years. I don't even know why you're listening to this broadcast. It's not for you. But like I am concerned, okay? Like, wow, I worked all this. All these years I worked. And my freedom may be taken away for whatever reason. Hey, we just had. Seven people died in the last week that were representing the only party in Germany that's actually stood up against the German bureaucrats for 30 years. Seven members of that team have been all of a sudden dead. Wake up, man. You know, I'm not trying to be a doomy but, but see the. All the charts in the world will never take away all what I'm saying right here. I'm like, wow, I'm looking at gold. Gold is at a thousand year high. Silver is $9 away from a thousand year high. I bought gold. Eleven hundred dollars in 2016. 2011. 11. It's trading at 3500, going at 5000. Bitcoin's been around a very, very short period of time. Nobody ever had bitcoin before, right? Like, look around, man. In order for me to move 50 million to $100 million worth of gold, divide that by 3,500 by 16 ounces and realize how much weight I have to move. The insurance alone for me to move it to Germany or Italy is like, I can move $100 million worth of Bitcoin and pay no one anything, including the airline. Okay? [00:44:12] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:44:12] Speaker A: It's unbelievable. Okay? It's the best location. It's Manhattan real estate. It's Sardinia. It's. It's the, the, it's the Vatican, dude. It's the Vatican and nobody can take it away from me. [00:44:29] Speaker B: Yeah. What you just reminded me was Max who said it's the Sistine chapel of money. [00:44:34] Speaker A: Like it may be the holy water. Okay? Me and Max will go deep religious on this thing, dude. This is, this Is the only. Yeah, he and I are going to become great friends. But this. This is the only religion anyone should actually belong to, quite frankly. I actually saw this as a religion when I first got in. Very culty religious type thing. I think all religions are cults, by the way. Sorry. I just think when I don't have the equal voice, it's a cult. And if I can't read all the text and if I can't read all the text and documents until I reach a certain level. Cult. If there's one guy running the show and he's got all the. The stuff, and I don't. Cult. Bitcoin doesn't have any of that. The code's sitting out there. If I want to look at it, I can. I don't have to. It doesn't require me to be in any particular state. State. It doesn't care if I'm a criminal or a good guy. A priest or a rabbi doesn't care. Black or white, rich or poor. That's a religion, dude. Okay. And. And the people that get into bitcoin, we all kind of, like, think about it that way. It's like, shit, man. You're. You're bitcoin. Oh, you. You like money that doesn't corrode. Would you love to walk around with a bunch of change in your pocket in Italy or Florida where it's humid, knowing that your money is literally rusting in your pockets every day? You should think about this every day. Just move all the money, and it's like you would have little chips of metal, rust, corrosion in your pockets. How messy would that be? See, they've taken all that away. You don't. You don't have to, you know, carry all that stuff with you and get your fingers dirty. And now it's just digits. So you. You. But you're treating it like it's something valuable, and it's not. It's a zero, man. A man taught me that a long time ago. I was working on a deal, and I was like, dude, it's easier to do $100 million deal than it is a 10. He's like, yeah, bro, for sure. I'm like, why is that? Because every. Every three zeros you add. The guy you're operating with is a smarter guy. He's easier to deal with. He doesn't have a bunch of problems, right? And he's doing a serious deal. So it's just a 0 and $111,000, $2 trillion asset. The only mistake that's being made is that you're not on the train. Like, I met with two guys older than me today, a lawyer and an accountant. And first thing my lawyer wants to do on my day, dime, 800 bucks an hour. Well, how's bitcoin doing? He said, what's your average price? He asked all the wrong. What was your low entry? What was your average price and where's it at now? See, he's looking at it. How much money have you made? [00:47:34] Speaker B: Yeah, it's totally, that's the way you look at it. But you missed the boat because that's how I looked at it the last cycle. And it messed me up because I was viewing it from that way versus what I'm, what you're talking about. And where I'm like coming to is like this needs to be. It is a core asset and when you appreciate its properties and you watch now, you have its track record that you can look at. And one comment I wanted to make because you see it go up, it's up over 800,000% since inception. So an asset up in 16 years over 800,000%. And so you see that and if you're looking at it from a traditional financial perspective, you go, wow, I missed the bottom boat. I wish I got into bitcoin early. But if you're looking at it that it's only 15 years old, there's still a large amount of adoption that still needs to happen. Traditional finance only recently got savvy and you know, or, or wanted to, to participate. And the Runway, it's like they're get they if they're starting to participate and the Runway is still, I mean compared to goal, like you said, it's a thousand year asset. Look at your Runway way, okay, we're 15 years into like what could be centuries and centuries and you know, infinitum in terms of the value of the asset. Like if it's truly the replacement from gold. That's why I always was so confused during the last cycle when I was listening to people and they would say, you're still early, you're still early. And I'm like, it's up 400,000%. How am I still early? But it's because you're still early, because the asset itself is still not is you young and it's still being adopted. So it doesn't matter how much it's gone up. It's like, what do you see for the future? And if we're Talking sailor numbers, 10 million, 13 million, more money than any fiat, you're going to Want to pay for it, which I'm starting to also get where it's like, there's not going to be a dollar amount that I'm going to want to sell the bitcoin for. Doesn't mean I won't spend it in bitcoin terms, but it doesn't mean I want to. I'm not going to want to trade my bitcoin for Fiat. That's the shift it was for me this round. Do you got to take that, Gary? You got. I heard like, your phone's going off the hook. [00:49:44] Speaker A: No, it's okay. It's. I rarely answer my phone, Gary. [00:49:49] Speaker B: I, I. Because I hyped it up and I don't want to not show it, but I have to restart my chrome to be able to share it with you. [00:49:56] Speaker A: Yeah, no problem. [00:49:57] Speaker B: We'll wrap it up. I'm gonna, I wanna, I'm gonna have you log out. I'm gonna restart the cast and then be able to share this with you because I want you to look at it. And I hope now that I've hyped it up enough, I should have played it a little bit more so that when you see it, you know, But I, I'm going to give you like price predictions based off of what I said. [00:50:15] Speaker A: Yeah. So you want me to get out and then come back in? [00:50:18] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, give me, give me like two minutes. [00:50:20] Speaker A: Yeah. Okay, bye. [00:50:21] Speaker B: Yeah, thank. Thanks for getting back on, Gary. [00:50:25] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:50:26] Speaker B: So I'll show you this. I, I'm gonna, We'll do a hard stop at three. I just, I, I have an endoscopy today, so. So let me see. I just wanted to show you this. So we were talking about the cycles and we were talking about price prediction. I guess you would call this like price speculation. So let me see. I should be able to share my screen with you now. So I'm going to share my entire screen. We just went meta there. Are you able to see this chart? Okay, this is a screenshot. And this is the price of bitcoin in June of 2016 was $380 here. And this was the peak in 2017 right here. And then this was the double top from 2020, 2021. So mostly 2021 actually was the double top and that would have been the last of the four years. So, like if the having was in 2020, now we're in the second year of the having here and this is the second peak. And then if you go back, this is the same back to 2017. So four years four years now we're at the, this tipping point of the current cycle. And so I didn't draw this line in recently like I drew this line in back here. I must have drawn this one in. I think I drew the top one down here. And this is the thing with charting, and I'll just say it here because charting is just like another tool in the belt, another speculative tool. People have different ways of getting this. And like I said with regards to the four year cycles, I look at it more from my, my bias is more psychological. But I did notice this on the chart and we do seem to be in a vertical channel. Not vertical, but like a diagonal channel. And if we're, we, we've touched these points and this range twice. Twice. So if this channel is accurate, if it, if it holds so like this is 2025, 2026, we could get back up to 130,000 and we could touch it again. And this is why I say I think that $130,000 is a critical level because if we break from that channel then that would just like fundamentals of technical analysis is, is what is. Once resistance becomes support, then that would be like a new support level. This is my, you know, as long as this chart holds up, a pattern is valid until it's broken. So like thus far this is the pattern that I see and I'm, and I'm saying it now publicly that I, I have a price prediction of 130k as being a critical low level of breaking. So I don't know how exciting now that I explained that to you, maybe I overhyped it. But you see where I drew these lines in, right? [00:53:31] Speaker A: Yeah, I would, I would actually based on that chart I would have, it would look to me like you, you're topping out. [00:53:39] Speaker B: Yeah. So like I said that to you. [00:53:41] Speaker A: And then you need to get down to 97 or so before you can do that run. [00:53:46] Speaker B: I want to, I want to pull up one more time because to, to your point, entire share screen, not to bore you with charts because people, some people geek out about this and some people could care less. Fundamental analysis versus technical analysis. So, so yeah, to your point, like that's why I think the 130 is critical because I think it'll either be support or it'll be resistance. And if it's resistance, and this kind of goes back to the four year cycle because in the last cycle we peaked out at about 70k but people were talking 200k even during that cycle cycle. So from a psychological perspective, I'M seeing a lot of the same things people say at certain parts of a cycle. So, like the numbers were getting ridiculous here. So they were getting people to buy in at 69k because we were talking about 250k, 300k back then in 2020. And so. And we saw what happened after that and doesn't mean we're going to correct this much. That could have been a. A black swan scenario and maybe the hash rate and other things will affect it so we don't dip down this much. And this was unusual too, because. Because just using the cycle theory, you typically don't dip down to below the high of the previous cycle. So that previous cycle was in the 2017 peak and that peaked out at about 20k and we actually dipped below the 20k. So that was unusual. But now we're back up. We're like significantly back up. And then we are in the final quarter here, which is why I say we're. This is like crunch time in terms of, Of a thesis on the cycles, because if we peak out at that 130k, that's where I think, yeah, you could come back in and maybe retest the 90. I don't think we'll go much past the 80,000 level just because there's a lot of consolidation that happened there and then again, like the lowest based on these lines. And this looks crazy. I look at this chart and I'm like, if you're not used to looking at it, it just looks like insanity. Like one of those, you know, when people have those boards up and it's like, I'm linking this to that and the other thing and this person's the who did it. But I don't foresee going below like that low 70k level ever again. I feel comfortable saying that. And I think even if we retest, it would be, you know, I think it's possible. [00:56:01] Speaker A: You know what I notice about this chart? Is it. Go back to it. [00:56:05] Speaker B: Yep. [00:56:06] Speaker A: You see the period. [00:56:07] Speaker B: This is the actual. Like you play around with it here, you can see the actual touch points. But here. [00:56:12] Speaker A: Yeah. What the point I was going to make. If you look at 20, 21, that dip where all that red is. There you go, right, right there. I can't show my pointer, but. And then you look at that jog up. Right. Those three steps up looks very, very similar to what we just went through. Yeah. I don't know if you can overlay those blade 20. Yeah. [00:56:37] Speaker B: And then 2025. [00:56:38] Speaker A: You see that V there? You see this V in between 2021 and 2022. There's another V right here. Yes, like right, exact the same V. Man. See, I would say this thing needs to come back down hard to like the 90s. If this chart has any validity. [00:56:55] Speaker B: I've thought that too. Where you have to. [00:56:57] Speaker A: It ain't going to 130 from there. No, it doesn't make any sense. [00:57:02] Speaker B: I agree with you with that too. I agree with that too because I'm like maybe you kind of like again you really have to play around with. It would probably be easier on this one if I span it out like this. Maybe you can create a vertical line maybe here, but it's still coming to below 100 hundred. Now. I'm with you. I've thought that and I still kind of think that. But it's, you know, I'm not trying to put bearish tone on, on there. And it's all relative in the sense that it's like if we dip back down to the, to the upper 90 level, wouldn't be the worst thing in the world. And to your point, if we dip down into there, that probably wouldn't last long. It would probably be like a wick into that area and then we could go like that would be the bounce right back into that 130 zone. I could see that happening in the next quarter. [00:57:53] Speaker A: I agree with you. I agree with you. [00:57:55] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. But, but beyond all that to the larger point is don't worry about any of that stuff. Just buy and hold and wait four years. Like buy like just dollar, just keep accumulating and don't worry about any of that stuff. And sometimes you're going to get a better price and sometimes you're, you know you're going to pay a little bit more. But in the grand scheme of things, even if you're paying 150k or 200k or 300k any and your expectation is that it's going to a million or 10 million or 13 million. That's where it's like we're still early. [00:58:32] Speaker A: Yeah, I think that that's the point. Like you can look at all these charts you want, but as a few of my friends have figured out this year, they underestimated how much bitcoin they were going to need to buy. They thought they would only need a hundred, then they wanted a thousand. Well, 65 went to 75, 75 went to 92. 92's at 111. Now they're like oh my God, dude, I need to buy 10,000 bitcoin right. No, really, this is a real story. Right? [00:59:01] Speaker B: I bet. [00:59:01] Speaker A: And so they've missed, you know, 15,000 to $20,000 on. On 10,000 Bitcoin. And now they're doing the math on, damn, if I would have done this 10 years ago, I'd be up 20 billion. I mean, this is. This is. Talk about psychology. This is what's happening right now. A lot of people are getting left behind because they're trying to be clever. Look, I've known a lot of people that are too smart for bitcoin. Bitcoin, like, you can overthink this thing. Like, right? You can really overthink it. Okay. It's not complicated. [00:59:38] Speaker B: What I just showed you was just for fun. Like. [00:59:40] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:59:40] Speaker B: Yeah, fun. It's like, just like when we like to speculate on price, it's like, how much you think it's going to. How much? It's like, kind of. It's interesting to postulate these things, but to your point, it. And you hear, this is where, like, traditional finance holds true. And even, like, the Buffett maximum of just buying and hold, just buy and hold. Like, don't try to trade around the asset and try to get cute. And I want to say one more thing before I forget, and I hope. I hope I don't call a top here, because we're kind of waiting for retail fomo, and I consider myself a retail investor. And I didn't recently start experiencing FOMO until, like, this last few months, where I'm like, crap. Because I kept watching it at 70k, 80k, thinking, all right, I'll get a little bit more. I'll get a little bit more. And now I'm like, dude, you got to start loading up. This thing's about to take off. Because now I'm starting to worry about that 250k level. And I'm like, you're going to kick yourself if you didn't try to accumulate at 100 and whatever, K. So, yeah, like I said, I hope I didn't. I hope I didn't out the retail psychology and be like, okay, here comes the beginning of real retail fomo. [01:00:47] Speaker A: Now, look, I think people need to understand there. There's like, Nakamoto. Their average cost, or metal Planet, is $118,000. These companies are buying billions Bitcoin. This is their strategy. Now, it didn't say, hey, I buy up to 130. I buy up to 180. We are buying bitcoin, right? They. They don't have a price. Okay? I. I don't know why people. You. You just look, you can overthink this and let people be in front of you, or you can understand the trend that's happening here. It's very early. We're 15 years into an experiment. The last six years, the experiment has become, oh, my God, let's increase the size of the laboratory because we don't have any failed experiments here. Unlike Covid, we're actually experimenting and showing people the results of it. And it's shown by the graph. You don't have people dying by holding bitcoin. [01:01:41] Speaker B: Right? [01:01:41] Speaker A: Okay. Like, look at the byproduct here. People are becoming prosperous and everyone's fighting it. So you can fight it all you want. This is most certainly happening. And it's very interesting. It's happening in a time where there's so much chaos. I mean, when you just think of the analogy I use, no one is getting hurt putting bitcoin into their system. And it's from a bunch of anarchists, crazy guys like me, versus the old system, which is now. You don't even know what you're reading on the back of a bowl of cereal, okay? Because there's so many complex chemicals in it, or much less. Like, the state of Florida just said, mandates on viruses are done for everyone. Wow. It took us this kind of an event to get there, right? So I'm getting super rich on bitcoin. It's giving me more freedom, more time, and more energy to think about what I can do to help the world. I don't know what's so bad about this product. [01:02:44] Speaker B: I'm with you. [01:02:45] Speaker A: And if it goes down. If. If it goes down to 75 grand, dude, for the next four years, that's fine, okay? It allows me to buy Bitcoin at 75 grand, and I think I will be able to probably buy 88, $90,000 bitcoin. I just can't tell you when. And the key is, you just keep acquiring. My average cost is $47,000. I have friends that have $300 bitcoin. They think I'm crazy. They don't really think I'm crazy, but you know what I'm saying? They're looking at me going, dude, they haven't bought bitcoin in a long time. Okay? Now, I don't know why they haven't, but they should have been buying bitcoin. But they have tens of thousands of bitcoin. Okay? [01:03:28] Speaker B: I've heard you say this before, and it makes sense. [01:03:31] Speaker A: You're important. These people are not. It should Be keep going up. Yeah, it should keep going up. [01:03:38] Speaker B: Cost basis should keep going up because you should always be buying. Maybe you taper your buying, go heavy up front at a low cost basis, but then don't stop buying. [01:03:47] Speaker A: Yeah. So I just bought some, some at. I just bought some at 103 and my cost to carry is eight grand. So I'm in for 111. Okay. I break even at 111. So I am borrowing money at 8, 8% to buy more bitcoin. Now I think that makes sense. And now I'm not doing it one for one. Yeah, well, of course, when you have this good a collateral, of course you would. [01:04:18] Speaker B: Right. [01:04:19] Speaker A: So you lean into this thing, dude, if it's right, it's right. I mean it's. You don't go, well, gosh, this is the greatest trade in history and you're gonna like limp into it. It makes no sense. [01:04:30] Speaker B: Hey, Gary, I, I do, I have a hard stop, but I do. You have. No, no. Yeah, but I wanted to say of the many things that you're doing because I know you're doing a lot, what would you like to promote? What would you like to call people out to? [01:04:41] Speaker A: I, I think Sunday morning mornings, 10:30am I do something called I am. It's something I'm experimenting with. I've been doing it since October of last year. Four or five thousand people show up on a Sunday morning. Bring your family, your kids, 4 year olds, 15 year old, 28 year old. It's not a religious thing, it's not a church. It's just me doing an experiment. And you can, you can do your own experiment with me or you can just watch me fumble around, become genius. [01:05:16] Speaker B: I love it. I'm gonna, I'm actually, I'm gonna see you this Sunday, Gary. I appreciate you. I've been following it and I really enjoy it. [01:05:24] Speaker A: Yeah. If we start out that part of our lives. Yeah. If you sort out this part of your life, everything else smooth, easy peasy, you go to your next meeting. Mark, thank you so much, man. Ciao, buddy. [01:05:34] Speaker B: Thank you so much for your time. Gary, thank you for watching this episode of the Money Adjustment. If you want more, more like comment and subscribe, you can follow me on X Mark Kramer until the next episode. Stay healthy and wealthy. [01:05:55] Speaker A: Bitcoin does bring a lot of different characteristics around. It's a very democracy type space. The bitcoin industry as a whole.