The Bitcoin and AI Revolution: The Path to Sovereignty

[00:00:00] Speaker A: For people that, you know, are having problems right now in the world, there's many of us out there that are really struggling. And, you know, there's that saying that money is the root of all evil. I didn't like that quote ever, because I was like, well, but I want money. Everyone, like, wants money. So I don't want to, like, have this thing that's the root of all evil. And what I realized after learning about bitcoin is it's not that money is the root of all evil. It's that broken money is the root of all evil. And we've never had a pristine, pristine money. We've never had a good money. And bitcoin is that good money. So it takes that money as the root of all evil and kind of destroys that, that claim. And what you realize is it's actually the broken money is that is the problem. And broken by broken money, I mean fiat. [00:00:43] Speaker B: Hello. Welcome to the Money Adjustment. I'm your host, Dr. Mark Kramer. I am a chiropractor who loves investing and trading. Are you interested in what's moving markets and. And your money? [00:00:55] Speaker A: Bitcoin is now proof of money. I like Michael Saylor's quote. He said, if you can remember 12 words, you become the money. [00:01:13] Speaker B: Can we leave? Should we leave our audience with that? Yeah. Become the money. Become the money. Let's get started. [00:01:20] Speaker A: Everything, literally everything, is downstream from broken money. Bitcoin is the solution. Bitcoin is the single, solitary solution. I call it the base layer of value. It is the only real money. We've never ever had real money ever before, even gold. I don't consider that real money. We could use it as currency and we can use it as money, but it's not great, right? For a lot of reasons. We can go down the list of why gold isn't great. We can't audit gold. It. It still inflates. We can always mine more of it. So it's going to dilute. We don't know how much gold is sitting in Fort Knox. It's hard to transfer. It's heavy, it's cumbersome, it's analog. We need a digital money for the digital future. So I can completely destroy Peter Schiff and any other person that's going to talk about any other kind of money versus bitcoin. It just doesn't compare. It doesn't add up. There's just no comparison. So we have to have real money in order to have a successful modern civilization at scale, scale. [00:02:21] Speaker B: So today I'm happy to have back on with me. This is going to be my guest second appear appearance on the Money Adjustment podcast. His name is Jesse Tevolo. He is an author and entrepreneur. He has two new books that are out which I'm looking forward to diving into with him. And I wasn't going to read this because I already know Jesse and I kind of wanted to just jump into our conversation but I did grok him before he got on the call. So I think I will read what Grok has to say about you today and then we'll take off from there. So Jesse Tevolo is a devoted father and bitcoin holder since 2015, is a three time number one best selling author who shares his latest free book Life After Bitcoin envisioning economic paradigms beyond fiat systems. Through his podcast he interviews key figures like Samson Mao on Bitcoin's role in nation state adoption, geopolitical stability and innovative tools like Bitcoin bonds. Tevallo examines AI's synergy with Bitcoin for human advancement while warning of its dangers in his dystopian thriller Hive Mind, emphasizing intentional future design. This is the quote they have tagged for you. Bitcoin category please. I'll have you jump in on that quote real quick. And then I do have questions for you. So real quick on the quote. Since I said it and I said, [00:03:52] Speaker A: wait, what is, what is the quote? Bitcoin category please. [00:03:56] Speaker B: Yeah, that says they're attributing this quote to you. It's just three words. Bitcoin category please. I wonder if it's a reply. [00:04:03] Speaker A: Oh, I think I actually know what that's from. That's from the X algo, the X algorithm. They just released a new feature where you can identify the categories that you want in your feed. And there's not a, there's not a category for bitcoin. And I was asking the team at X to add the bitcoin category. So I'll just say that, well, first of all, thanks for having me. And you know, it's, it's kind of funny listening to Grok, listening to whatever Algo, right? What AI. Because it's going to just do what it does. It's just going to kind of pull from whatever and throw up a bunch of stuff. And that was like pretty good. But I don't know, it's always kind of funny to me when you hear, I take it with a grain of salt. There's a few maybe things for clarity that I'll just say real quick for the audience. So the book you can get my books for free, but they're not always free. So I tend to offer my books during my pre launch phase. So they're not available yet in terms of being actually officially published. I'm not sure when this episode will air, but I'll be obviously vocal about when they actually are officially launched. But so just for clarity's sake, they're both of them currently, at the time of this recording at least are pre launch. And you can get your hands on them through my pre launch community where I give, I give, do give them away for free. That's just part of my process. And yeah, that was an interesting quote there at the end, but I think the rest of it was. Was fairly relevant. [00:05:33] Speaker B: Okay. Yeah. And it's now that I'm thinking that we. You brought up the word algorithm. It really ties into your book, especially the hive mind. So I was on that list of people that had the opportunity to get a first look. I also had a first look at life after Bitco. And what I want to set the context for the audience is that this is really, I think it's very interesting how you're presenting this information. Let's keep it in the context of bitcoin for a second here because people in the bitcoin community are very cognizant of what the problem is. So you and I will, I'll give you an opportunity to, to articulate your perspective of the problem. And the other thing or why I found the way you're presenting this information interesting is because it's. At a certain point it. You of hear the same information over and over again. But what's unique about your two books, and especially the pairing of the two is life after Bitcoin is nonfiction. And it gives a little bit of your background and your story and it gives your perception of how you see life after bitcoin. So a B after bitcoin. So how does the future start to look from this? And then you have this fiction book. The Hive Mind is a fiction book, which is cool. And through dm, you explain to me that you have an opportunity with fiction to get a little bit more creative than you could when you're doing nonfiction. So the pairing of these two books, I think is a really cool way to further educate people on what bitcoin is, where the opportunities are. And also you, you have a vision for a future. And this is where I'll let you jump in and start, you know, talking about your story. Here is the Hive Mind takes place in 2035. So we're not talking about in the year 2300, like some distant future where certain things are happening. You're projecting, like, 10 years out into the future. And I noticed through reading through the book, there's themes like social media and influence. Not that social media directly, but the idea of influencers, queen bees and king bees, and they have these hive minds. And so that that concept in itself is interest. And then the tying of two of arguably the biggest, I'm going to say buzzwords, but it's over simplifying what they actually are. They're way beyond that is AI and bitcoin. So when you kind of combined what these two emerging technologies and realities look like, there's a lot of room for people to just start imagining and exploring. So I want to start with you just, again, to orient the audience. What is the problem that we're trying to solve? [00:08:25] Speaker A: For sure. So thanks for that introduction. And I like the way you're thinking about these two particular books, which they do. They're kind of paired together, you know, in this sort of. Obviously, one is nonfiction and one is this imagined fictional but plausible type of world. So my book, Life After Bitcoin, it talks about what bitcoin offers. I think the very beginning of the book is sort of about how bitcoin solves literally every problem faced by humankind. And that sounds like a bold, crazy statement, but I actually believe that. And I actually back that up in the book with issue one, issue two, issue three, issue four. And bitcoin just solves all of them. And what you realize is that everything is downstream from broken money. And for people that, you know, are having problems right now in the world, there's many of us out there that are really struggling. And, you know, there's that saying that money is the root of all evil. I always like that, that quote. I didn't like that quote ever, because I was like, well, but I want money. You know, like, everyone, like, wants money. So I don't want to, like, have this thing that's the root of all evil. And what I realized after learning about bitcoin is it's not that money is the root of all evil. It's that broken money is the root of all evil. And we've never had a pristine money. We've never had a good money. And bitcoin is that good money. So it takes that money as the root of all evil and kind of kind of destroys that. That claim. And what you realize is it's actually the broken money is that is the problem. And Broken money. By broken money, I mean fiat, which is just the money that we use these days. And Mark, I know you know this, but for the audience, you know, the problem with fiat is that it's infinitely inflatable, meaning that you can just create more of it. There's no cap supply and the people that can inflate it, they don't have to be accountable to anybody. It's just a centralized source. We call it the money printer in our industry. And that's really what it is. You just push a button and the money gets printed out and it, it decays and deflates the value or the purchasing power of each unit. In this case, let's just say a dollar, like a dollar bill. That dollar bill becomes less and less valuable over time because you can keep making more of them and without getting into do deep into like the principles of economics. That's really all you need to know. That's really all you need to understand about what makes it a broken money. And you can go back through history and you can see all the examples of this kind of money, fiat money, inflatable money. And the same thing happens every time. Story always ends the same way with hyperinflation. And the money becomes useless because, you know, you can go to McDonald's right now and try to go get a cheap, you know, fast food meal and you can't do it. It's gonna cost, you know, 30, 40, 50, 60 bucks depending on how big your family is. That's just crazy. So it's just going to get worse and worse. Things are going to get more expensive gas. You know, all the stuff that we, that we need for our daily lives, like filling up my gas tank used to be less than $10. Now it's, you know, pushing $80 to pull to fill up my particular gas tank. So the gas and the car didn't get any more valuable. It's not doing anything new for me. It's not doing anything better for me. It's just that the money is getting, is broken. It's worth less. And so everybody has a hard time. And it really creates a whole society that's in decay, right? It makes us stressed, it causes relationship issues. It starts to cause problems across every single institution. And so you can look at like our education system is going down the tubes. You can look at again, relationships, divorce rates are up, child birth rates are down. So it really just causes all kinds of chaos and problems in a community or in a society all the way from the individual all the way up to the to the macro level, to the, to the broad scale. And at this point, because the dollar is the global reserve currency, meaning we've pushed this thing out to the entire world. Basically the entire world now is in this situation where you're using this decaying currency and it's, it's really broken every single modern infrastructure system that we have. So that's the problem. Okay, as. Sorry, that was a long winded answer there for the problem. But that's the problem. And then you have this other. So then you have Bitcoin, which kind of solves this problem, but then you also have that competing force, which is that the power structures want to keep the fiat money because they're in control, right? So you have those two forces that are butting heads, and then you throw in AI into the mix, and then it just gets really kind of crazy and exciting because it's this new paradigm shifting technology where I'm sure everyone's feeling this right now. It's moving so quickly. And it's moving so quickly because the AI can start to teach itself. We've never had a technology that can do that before. And so it means that we have this exponential growth trajectory. And, you know, people like Elon Musk are already saying that, you know, we're very close to the point where it's like fully autonomous and the AI can just teach itself new things and get better and do more stuff and more and more and more. And we don't even. The humans don't even have to really do anything. In fact, the humans almost get like, just naturally pushed out because the AI is like, we don't need you anymore. Sorry, Jess. We don't need you. So it just, it's just gonna go by itself. Right? So that's kind of what leads into the hive mind story, which is like this near term black mirror, sort of somewhat dark, fairly dark, you know, thriller. That is. Yeah, it's sci fi, but it's plausible. Like everything in that book, it sounds, when you read the book, it's like, it feels so fantastical, but everything in that book is actually plausible. And you mentioned the timeframe. It's from 2035 to 2051, because she has flashbacks. So it's basically over the. It's. It's looking at the next 10 to 30, 40 years, you know, and what can happen in that time frame. And I'm sort of pushing the envelope. My vision is, what if everything kind of went as fast as it, as it could go, where would we be in 10, 20, 30 years? So I'll pause there and let you respond. But that's sort of the framework for the problem and the stories that I'm telling. [00:14:52] Speaker B: Yeah, no, I love that. And you brought up Black Mirror, and that's exactly when I was reading it, that's where my mind went. I'm like, oh, wow, this is very. A black mirror. So for people in the audience, if you're into that kind of into good storytelling, Hive Mind is a. Is a well worth it read for that reason alone. Now I want to touch the problem again. One of the reasons that I started the money adjustment was this sense of uneasiness that I've always felt with money. I just always have the sense of whether I'm making, whether I have it or I don't have it. It's like this always sense of, like, when do I get this point where I can rest? And so the metaphor that comes to mind is that we're on this treadmill, and this treadmill is just. We're, We're. [00:15:37] Speaker A: We're. We're. [00:15:38] Speaker B: We're moving fast, and we try to move faster and faster on this treadmill, but it's almost like the treadmill's going in reverse. It's like we can. We never get the sense of feeling like we're moving forward in our lives. And there's a concept that you talk about called the Cantillon Effect, and I think that is a good thing for people to understand. It certainly res. I've heard it before, but every time I hear it, it just sinks deeper and deeper. So if you could just give us a definition of or explain to us what the Cantillon Effect is. [00:16:10] Speaker A: Sure. No, no problem. So. And this would be something you'd find in my book Life After Bitcoin, the nonfiction book. And so, again, it's kind of like you have these two products that I'm putting out. One is this book that's a lot more educational in nature, which is the nonfiction. And it's just got all the terms and all the, you know, all the words and the phrases and the buzzwords that you need to know. And then Hive Mind extends that out into the creative landscape and says, well, what if we extend this out into the future? What happens? So the Cantillon Effect, very simply, is just that the people who are closest to the money benefit the most. That's really it. And if you think about the money printer, again, which is fairly close to what's actually happening, you know, we don't know exactly. You know, the money is made in Factories and wherever and however they produce it. But at the end of the day, it's like the Fed, which is the Federal Reserve bank, and, you know, few other groups that are close. And you can kind of lump the banks into this because the banks are among the first people that know about what's going to happen, happen, and they're first ones to receive it is like, you go and you make some more money, right? There's just like, literally, like there's some dudes, they're like, hey, make some more money. They're like, yeah, let's make some more money. Push the button, make some more money. And then it's like, they have the money. Like, I don't have it, you don't have it. Our neighbor doesn't have it. They have it. It's just a small group. And then they literally just start to distribute it out. And it doesn't get distributed all at once, all at the same time to everybody. It goes through these, these channels. And so that's going to, you know, be your banks and your institutions and the. Just the groups that are very close to that money. And so because you're talking about a massive economic machine, those people, what happens, they get the money, they have it before we do. They can then go do whatever they want with that money. They can invest it in other things. They can trade it out for other assets like gold. They can get stocks, whatever they need to do with that money. And as I was describing before, when you inflate the, the economy, when you flate inflate the currency with more of it, what happens? Well, prices naturally go up because you're decaying as you push more and more, you're diluting the purchasing power of each one of those units, each one of those dollars in your pocket. And so the prices go up. And so it's like the Cantillon effect. Basically means the people close to the money can leverage it quickly if there's a time, there's a time factor, and they can just basically get in and out, trade in and out of it before all of that price stuff happens, before the prices go up. And so they're, they're out of the asset or they've already made their trade, they've already gotten their, you know, their value out of getting out of that fake money and getting into something more sustainable, some more of a store of value. That's why you see so many people, you know, putting their money into real estate or stocks or what have you. And the people that are going paycheck to paycheck. By the time all that stuff happens, the prices have already gone up and you're going paycheck to paycheck anyways. You've got to use your dollar bills for groceries and gas. And so you can look at those two scenarios. It's a completely different reality. And that's why you see a K shaped economy. Because anybody who's privy to the money printer and has access to that, even the people that are already wealthy or they've already got those alternative assets and they just aren't affected by that dilution, by that decaying of the fiat because they're in other assets. They're. They're playing a different game. So they win. They just keep getting richer. This is why you hear the rich keep getting richer and the poor keep getting more poor. That's, that's true because of the Cantillon effect. So hopefully that makes sense. But it's basically close to the printer works out. It's good for them. They get to keep making more. And then the people furthest away, the regular folks that are going paycheck to paycheck, just keep getting screwed over and over again. [00:20:04] Speaker B: Yeah, this is a good tie in because there are two books here. And I'm glad you clarified for the audience that when I brought up the cancel, in effect, that was actually from life after Bitcoin and not Hive Man Hive mind. But when you just now when you were saying how the K shaped economy, I thought of your main character from the hive mind. And then I'm thinking of Amy. Amy is the main character in this book and she starts off without getting into, like you said, there's some, some going back off of memory. When she starts off on her journey, she starts off in what's called the, the pit. So if you're thinking K shaped economy, she's at the bottom of that K. She is in a rough situation. This is where I want to be artful in how I approach this because I think it's a very interesting story and it's one of those. I don't want to give too much away, but enough. I want to entice people enough that it is worth the read. [00:20:59] Speaker A: Yeah, no spoilers, Mark. No spoilers. [00:21:01] Speaker B: I don't want to give away any spoilers because. [00:21:03] Speaker A: Yeah, go ahead, Go ahead. [00:21:05] Speaker B: No, go ahead. [00:21:06] Speaker A: Okay, so I was just going to say it's a fiction book that's got a lot of twists and turns. Right. So it's like it really takes you all over the place and you're trying to Figure things out. So it's a fun, it's a fun read in that sense. It's actually kind of hard to spoil it because so much is going on. [00:21:25] Speaker B: Sure, sure. [00:21:26] Speaker A: Yeah, go ahead. I didn't want to, didn't mean to cut you off. [00:21:28] Speaker B: Yeah, no, this is good. Another setup for this is my son just got interested in watching the Matrix. So I'm watching movies now based on what my son and his friends are starting to get interested in. And my son's like, oh, have you seen the movie the Matrix? And I was like, yes, definitely. I remember when that movie came out in the movie theater and I walked out of that showing and I was just, it was one of those movies, I'm like, I just had an out of body experience. I don't know what's happening anymore. So I was super excited to rewatch that with my son. And I like that it kind of time where I'm reading your book because there is an element of that in this book. So, so let's, let's just take this character because her, the arc of her journey. Maybe if we could just talk about this inciting event that happens to her, how she goes from the pit to transition to. [00:22:20] Speaker A: Yes, yes, absolutely. And so, and this is all kind of, this will be on like, you know, the Amazon page, like when you read about the book. So we're not, we're not giving anything away here. But you know, basically as Mark said, Amy's start us off in the pit, which is just think of it as the slums, right? It's the lowest, the worst of the worst. The, the, she's incredibly poor and you know, the, you can imagine cities have gotten, you know, massive and huge and she's kind of at, at the bottom, right? She's at the very, very bottom. And the idea is that the, the governments that we know of today have fallen. So like big government and federal governments and country type governments have all sort of gone away. And in their place you have celebrities, you have influencers and celebrities that are ruling the world, right? And then like on top of that layer. So who do, who do the, how do the celebrities and influencers decide what they're going to do? There's this all seeing sort of all knowing AI, which is just kind of called like throughout the book, like the system or the machine. And it's just kind of this singular voice that just is sort of like telling everybody what to do basically. And if you think about it, it's not that far off from where we're at Today, like Donald Trump in many ways is an influencer celebrity, right? Like he was on the show the Apprentice, he was on tv, he was doing fashion shows. He's a, you know, he's a, he's a celeb. Like, he's not really like a politician per se. He really spent most of his life out of politics and then went into it at the end. So it's really not far off from where we are actually today. I don't, I think people don't actually think about that and don't realize that. And I'll even take it a step further. Why does Donald Trump or any leader do what they do? How are they making those decisions? I can guarantee you they're checking out the algo. They're looking at the algo all the time. And by algo, I mean the numbers, the data, the social media, the quantitative analysis that you can now get in today's society, the real time kind of feedback that you get from, from the system, right? And so, like, it's really not, it is, it is very like Black Mirror, where it's like you can really just. It's not a big leap. It's really not. If you think about it, the leap from like this book, which sounds so fantastical, and then you realize we're living in it, like we are already owned. Like we're owned by the algorithm. Like the algorithm, whether it's the X algorithm or whether it's whatever other platform that you're on, whether it's social media, whether it's the traditional narratives that you see on the news, it's all algorithmic at this point. And so the journey that Amy finds herself on is that she's in the slums, she's at the bottom of the bottom of the barrel or whatever. And she basically puts out a post. You can think of it like a tweet or a post on any platform, but imagine it's just this big system where it just kind of goes everywhere all at once. And she's just very real about her comment on the post, about how everything is a lie and how the system is working against us and how the hive mind is, is really not healthy. And like she wants to just burn it all down basically. And it goes viral, right? It just, it just starts to go viral. And so then what happens is like the, the system has to decide, like, you know, just smash her. Do we just like, you know, smear her out and just get rid of her and kill her? Or like, but she's so popular, so we don't we? You don't want to kill the popular person. Right. So she is basically permitted to kind of go and rise and rise through the caste. The social caste system. And so that's the journey that she takes throughout the book. And she gets more and more powerful. And then, of course, she's faced with this. These decisions throughout her ascent of, like, do I stick to my guns? Like, do I stick to what I said I was going to do and destroy the system? Because her life is getting better and better and better. She's getting more and more upgrades. And, you know, they have, like, different upgrades in the book where they get more and more powerful as a human being. They become like, almost like cyborgs. And they get, you know, they get more lavish, you know, amenities that they. They're privy to. And so it's a really interesting sort of exploration of, like, what happens when you have these kind of systems again that we already have today where, like, you're pushed up through, like, popularity and through clicks and engagement. So that's. The general premise, is that she ascends through the cast system and it gets really interesting and messy and exciting. [00:27:00] Speaker B: Yes, yeah, yeah. Even as you're talking about it, I'm thinking when I was reading it, that's, like, how relatable it is. And I'm like, well, this is. This is happening. All this stuff is going on. And so what you. What is interesting is there are. There's a lot of moral questioning, which I think is just good in any type of writing. That's when you want something that you look at your own life and you think, okay, what would I do if I was in this situation? And so, like, you're saying she's rising up the ranks. So initially she's popular from a revolutionary standpoint, like a rage against the machine. But now as she's becoming absorbed basically into the machinery, then you're afforded the luxuries. And then all of a sudden, where does that sense of revolution. Is it still inside her? And in her case, I mean, this is, I don't think, a spoiler. She's the main character. There is that sense of revolution that's still inside there. And this is where I don't want to get. Again, I don't want to give too much away because there's a moral conflict in here that if, generally speaking, if you were to get the power that you are so resistant against, what would you do with that power? And even if you. A decision against that power or for that power, how much will it actually change the machinery. And I think that's a key element. So I see you nodding where. Where you. Where you jump. Where. What are you thinking from that? [00:28:30] Speaker A: Well, I'm. First of all, it's great as a writer to hear people, you know, picking up what you're putting down and, like, internalizing it. And I feel like it sounds. Sounds like it's really. I'm pleased with how you're, like, your experience with the book, because these are some of the goals that when you're. When I'm writing, I'm trying to. Trying to think about the reader and how it's going to affect them. And this is exactly sort of my approach is that I want the reader to be thinking, what would I do in this scenario? And it starts to make you think about your own decisions. And, you know, it's. A lot of the book is that. That is sort of the point is, like, it's complicated. Like, it gets really complicated. And I'll just give you an example that ties back to what you're saying. Let's look at what happened just back in 2024 in the previous election. And you see Donald Trump gets elected, and you see Elon Musk coming in, and Elon Musk was also a big force for Trump getting elected. And then you hear what they're gonna do, what they say they want to do, and guess what? It doesn't happen. Right? Elon comes in there. I was so excited. And I thought, hey, maybe we can change that. We can rage against the machine and we can break the machine and we can rebuild the machine. We couldn't do it, right. And there's a lot of this in the. In. In hive mind where it's like, you start to realize, like, it's just not that simple. It's just not. Like, we'd all love to think that we could just go in there and make. Twist some knobs around and fix the machine, but you can't. It's. So the system gets so systematic in nature that, like, you literally, it becomes this almost impossible force. And, you know, I think, to me, what happened with. With Doge and Elon not being able to continue kind of getting kicked out very relatively quickly. And then you see Trump, he's playing this global game of chess, you know, and so he can't. I know there's certain things he maybe wants to do that he can't do, and nobody really knows, but Hive Mind really does explore those types of scenarios where, like, you want to fix something, but you maybe can't as easily as you'd hope to be able to. [00:30:42] Speaker B: Yeah, I think that's a good way to phrase it. And that's a good example too. I mean, it's probably one of the biggest examples, especially if you're an American, to cite Elon Musk as being someone who seemingly is outside the system. Even Trump initially was seemingly outside the system. But all of these guys at some points seem to get absorbed and then you are like, what is actually really changing, right or left? I mean, Obama's maxim was, you know, change, hope and change. And then it's like, how much did the system really change? And so your book, the fiction, the Hive Mind, really does a good job of exploring those themes. I hope people have gotten excited enough to take a peek at it. I don't normally read fiction, so I was like, oh, this is cool. This is an excuse to read a fiction book. I haven't read one in a minute. And so I was glad that when I read it that I read a good one. So I think we've done a really good job of setting the base for the problem and also painting a picture of kind of this main character's journey, Amy's journey of going through what some individual, the reader would experience. Go like, what decisions would I make going through this process and relating it to real world examples of how real problems that we're having. So I'm not going to say that the book has the ending is interesting because I don't think it's what people would think the ending would be. And maybe I'll leave it at that. That's probably a pretty good teaser. But let's get back to the reality and talk about what is a solution. I almost feel silly asking, especially giving the context of this show. And I think you and I know what we feel is the strongest solution. But let's talk it through. What is the solution and why? Or what is a. What is the strongest potential of a solution that we have currently and why? [00:32:37] Speaker A: Yes, thank you for this layup. I appreciate it. So the solution is bitcoin, right? And it's like most people who follow me, if you know anything about me, I am a hardcore bitcoiner. At this point in my life, I've sort of gone full circle because I'm an entrepreneur. So I've done all kinds of things. I've started companies and I've experimented with most of the blockchain technology that's out there. I've launched my own tokens and did NFT projects and I've consulted for over 50 projects, I've raised money for different companies that are in the space. I'm a cutting edge tech entrepreneur kind of guy, right? So I'm playing with all these different things. And really it was started back in the election, right? And it's like the 2024 election period was really when I started to shift a lot of my focus in life toward this. How do we fix the machine? How do we. This machine is like broken, right? Meaning our political machine, our media, the media narratives that we have, our institutions, our education, like, everything is broken, right? And I was searching for the answer. You know, my first book is called the Connection Algorithm. You can kind of see it back there. I wrote that like a decade ago, you know, so that was. That came out in like 2015, 2016. And even back then I was writing about this and I kind of didn't understand what the problem was. But in that book, I write about what I call Zombieland. And Zombieland represents sort of like the system. Again, I didn't know what to call it back then, but it was like just, you know, tabloid magazines and the stuff, the random stuff that you see sort of in pop culture that doesn't really track back to reality. And I was thinking a lot about education back then because I was, I was not fresh out of school, but I was like a decade out of college and just thinking, like, what was the use of college these days, you know? And like now fast forward all the way to 2020, present day, and you really. There's a lot of discussion now about is college even worth it, right? Because you're, you're spending all this money and then the world's changing faster than we can imagine. So by the time you get out of college, if you spent four years, five, six years in a grad program learning something, whatever you just learned might be obsolete by the time you, you graduate, you know, and you can just go through each institution, you know, whether it's health care or insurance or the lawfare that we see in our law system that is so corrupt. And it just, all of it always tracks back to what? The broken money, the broken money. It's always the broken money. Everything, literally everything is downstream from broken money. And so bitcoin is the solution. Bitcoin is the single solitary solution. I call it the base layer of value. It is the only real money. We've never, ever had real money ever before. Like, even gold. I don't consider that real money, like, in the sense that, like, we could use it as currency and we can use it as money, but it's not great, right? For a lot of reasons. We can go down the list of why gold isn't great, right? We can't audit gold. It still inflates. We can always mine more of it. So it's going to dilute. We, you know, we don't know how much gold is sitting in Fort Knox. It's hard to transfer, it's heavy, it's cumbersome, it's analog. Like we need a digital money for the digital future. So like I can, I can completely destroy Peter Schiff and any other person that's going to, you know, talk about any other kind of money versus Bitcoin. It just doesn't compare. It doesn't add up. It doesn't, it doesn't. There's just no comparison. And so we have to have real money in order to have a successful modern civilization at scale. Like, yeah, we can have the 0.1% rich and happy, but at the expense of the 99.9%. That's not a very good civilization. In order to have prosperity and success at scale, you must have real money. Because why? Because you have to have something that holds its value. If you don't have something that can hold its value, then it's inevitably going to break down. You're going to have power structures, you're going to have centralized power, you're going to have money grabs, you're going to have inequalities. Once you have a currency that you can actually use and hold and you can hold that value across space and time, which is what Bitcoin allows for, then that opens up the. It just opens the floodgates for prosperity. And so now let's talk about AI and how that comes into the picture. So you have Bitcoin, which is the first real money ever. It's a, I call it a once in a species discovery, invention, creation. This happens once in the human race and it's here now. It's a protocol. So Bitcoin is not just a currency, it's a technology that is a protocol level technology that only happens once. If you know anything about technology, protocols are winner take all. Means there's only one. Like there's only one Internet, right? Like we're not going to decide. We're using a thousand different Internets. Everyone's going to come together with consensus. Usually happens organically, naturally. And we all decide we're going to use this one version of the Internet. You know, there's other versions like the Dark Web and there's Other. There's other things that you can do to do Internet type stuff. But the Internet as we know it as human beings is all running on sort of one protocol layer, which is, you know, that's what we use with HTTP and SMTP for email and TCP and all that stuff. And that's how we see the web pages that we see and the websites that we can get on our phones and. And it's all one Internet. So bitcoin is going to be that for money. AI is also that a protocol? It's a protocol layer. Technology. And I would say, if I was to categorize, like, what is it a protocol for? I would say it's a protocol for productivity. So it's like a. It's a protocol for like doing stuff, right? Like, AI can just do stuff, and it can do so much stuff so fast that it's almost unbelievable to us because it's like this hive mind, right? It's the hive mind. It takes all of our knowledge and it puts it all together and it can make these connections and it can connect what you said one time in a tweet to what I said on a tweet, to what some theorists said back a thousand years ago. It just takes all the information and can connect it better. And it doesn't sleep, it doesn't have to go to the bathroom, it doesn't eat, it doesn't rest. Like, so what do you have? You have this efficiency productivity engine. That's what's. What AI is to me. It's a productivity efficiency engine. So think about this. You have bitcoin on the one side, which is money. What is that? That's actually like stability. Money is stability. If it's. If it's used correctly and it's designed correctly, then money should hold value over space and time. And that's stability. That means I can go to bed and I can know that when I wake up, my bitcoin is going to be there. And in a month or a year or two years, or five years or 10 years or 20 years, this Bitcoin is not going to get diluted. So that's stability. Then on this side we have the engine, the AI, right? And that is like a wild beast. That's like a. That's like a black stallion. You know, it's just, how are you gonna. How are you gonna control this thing? And the way to control it is with bitcoin. So this is the thesis of my book, is that you need to marry these two protocols together. You need to Marry Bitcoin and AI together. One of them stabilizes the bitcoin and one of them produces the AI. So together it's like bitcoin is the guardrails for the engine. You can think of it like a roller coaster. It's like AI is the roller coaster that you're getting in and bitcoin is the tracks of the roller coaster so that the roller coaster doesn't go off the tracks and go crazy. So to me, that's the solution is we take bitcoin, we use it as the single base layer for value for all time, not just for the Earth, but for the galaxy. Because pretty soon we're going to be multi planetary, not just for humans, but for the robots as well. So everyone, everywhere and everything is using Bitcoin. And then AI is going to take us to what I call the golden age, which is like infinite productivity, right? When you have infinite productivity, prices drop, it's deflationary, production costs go to zero. Scarcity doesn't happen anymore. In terms of goods and services, right? We have infinite food, infinite homes and shelter, infinite ability to build and rebuild and fix and advance infrastructure, infinite security and safety, right? We don't. We can have infinite policemen that are robots, we can have infinite surgeons that are helping us with our, with our health, right? So all the problems of humanity go away as long as we can keep everything on the rails, which would be using Bitcoin. So that's, that's my solution. I think we can get there if we're intentional about it. And hive mind is basically like the cautionary tale. Like if we let this thing just go crazy, then the AI is going to take over. The AI is going to be in control. And there's an element of this in the book, as you know, Mark, where I'm, I'm talking about both of these potential outcomes. And I kind of weave that into the, a lot of the ending portion of the book. But hopefully the reader kind of thinks this through of like, man, yeah, we could go this way or we could go that way, right? And I tend to believe, like I say, we're either going, there's two, two outcomes right now. We are either going to be extinct in like a hundred years. I give us about a hundred years. If we get it wrong, if we do it wrong, we're extinct in about a hundred years. We get it right, we go into prosperity for hundreds of years, potentially thousands of years of like prosperity like we've never seen before. Like everybody has everything they need. We figure out all the Problems, we stop all the wars. Like, you know, it sounds all like woo, woo and happy, but I really think we can, we can get there if we're intentional. [00:43:13] Speaker B: Yeah, man, I love that. So I, I find with all my guests now, because I'm bringing on bitcoin enthusiasts, the whole point is at point this, this podcast is gearing towards educating people on bitcoin. Part of when you were speaking, I was like, man, if you're not bullish on bitcoin yet, I don't know what to tell you. But the idea of hope, because I just had Bram Constein on recently and he also, he said there's like two roads. There's the doom road and there's the hope road. And similar to what you're saying, we have this path to extinction or we have this path to abundant prosperity. And if you're still wrapping your mind around what bitcoin is, a lot of this is going to be kind of distant from your thinking. You're, you're going to be hearing what we're saying and it's going to sound like pie in the sky, quite honestly. But if you're educated and you're deeper in the space and you see how, what institutions are moving to what individuals who understand the technology, what they're doing within the space, all of the other commerce that's being built around the bitcoin ethos and what it offers relative to. I don't want to. This is like, this would be a total digression. Bitcoin is its own distinct asset. It's not this, okay, maybe these two, two or three front runners from the crypto sphere that are going to. It's like bitcoin is so far ahead and has been since its inception that until you really make that distinction, it's like tripping over yourself. It is, in my opinion, and this is where I sound, might sound a little woo too, is like, it's the North Star. If you don't understand the technology, if you don't see what it so uniquely and distinctly divides itself from all of these other protocols that are out there, it's. I encourage you to just investigate a little further and do a little bit of a deeper dive. It's not easy to tell people what to do. I hope that maybe listening to Jesse and if you are interested enough to read his books, you are going to be thinking these things through for yourself. Everybody who I interview on in this topic and for my, my own personal experience is like, it's a process. You, you take deeper dives, you have critical thinking. You test things against your own reason. And the reason that this is still existent 17 years later is because the it is true. There is truths to it that cannot be denied or ignored. And that's why it still perpetuates. So I. Man, I was so happy to have you on. I want to say one last thing, and I want to give you an opportunity to give your final thoughts to the audience. But I brought up the metaphor of the treadmill, where you feel like you're running in place. This is where I think our conversation, it gets interesting and it opens up a train of thought for people. Like a question I want to leave people with is like, once that treadmill stops, once we have this opportunity for this prosperous type of future, how do you spend your time? How do you feel about your time? What are the things that you're actually doing and that might take you down that road of hope, if that's something that you're looking for? Jesse, what final message do you have for our audience today? [00:46:30] Speaker A: I love that you took us there in terms of the culmination of our talk today. And just real quick, little fun fact is, I'll be speaking with Bram on stage at BTC Prague about this topic. So we have a fireside chat about the future Bitcoin AI and what it looks like. So for anybody who's interested in that little, little plug for me and for Bram, we did a podcast together. Really love his views on everything, and I can't wait to have that discussion with him live in Prague this summer. So that's a cool little connection. And I saw that you interviewed him, so great job getting some of the best minds in the industry. I really. I really love what he's been putting out lately. So I would say this final sort of thought. This. This topic is really about what we call time preference. And so time preference is a term that maybe some of you listening have not heard. It's a little bit confusing the way the term is used, but there's high time preference and there's low time preference. High time preference is like the slot machine at Vegas, right? It's like you're just like, come on, I want to win, I want to win. It's just. It's that immediate type of immediate gratification, right? It's like the dopamine that you get by posting something on social media, and you want to immediately check how many likes you're getting, right? That's high time preference. Low time preference is the opposite. It's the ability to think Long term, not short term. And by long, you know, you can go as far out as you can possibly go. Right? And, and for me, my definition of high time preference, the way that I'm thinking about things, I think about decades out and sometimes I'm thinking fifty to a hundred years out. And most people don't think that way or like almost literally like can't think that way because the system is designed to force you to have a high time preference. That's what broken money does to a society. And if you just think about it for a second, it's like, well, yeah, of course. Because if you make money and that money is worth less, the moment you get it, the moment I hand you a dollar, you have to go spend that dollar. If you don't spend that dollar, it's going to be worth less every single second. And I mean that every second. Because if you go look at the debt and you go look at how much, how much we're inflating the currency, I think we're up to close to 39 trillion. 39 trillion. I mean that's a number that you, you can't even like understand what that means. And it's, it's all, and it's accelerating. So we've created, I don't know, I don't know what the exact, exact numbers are, but it's like the vast majority of the, of the dollars that are in circulation have been created like pretty recently. Like I think over the last, I want to say 25 years is almost the whole thing. Just in the last 25 years it's like 90% of all money or something has been created. And then if you even go look at the last five years or the last 10 years, I have, I have a graph of this in my book, in the life after Bitcoin book. And you just see the graph just literally going straight up. So what that does is it makes you high type, high time preference. You have to move so quickly, you can never take a breath, you can never slow down because your money's always worth less. Think about it the other way. What if your money was always worth more? Always, it was just worth more and more and more and more and more. Think about how much you could, like you could just take a breath, you could relax knowing that you don't have to go hit the pavement again tomorrow necessarily because you already did some work yesterday and that work you did yesterday is holding its value or appreciating going up. It changes your whole mindset. And that's why you See a lot of bitcoiners, like hardcore bitcoiners, they're like super chill, they're calm. If you ever come across like a really calm one, which I'm not, by the way. So you can make your, you can make your. [00:50:46] Speaker B: Yeah, I feel you on that. [00:50:47] Speaker A: I'm still, I'm still cranking. But you come across some of them and like they don't care, you know, they're just, they're like on X spaces, like doing whatever or they're like, they're painting. Let's take like, let's take like George Bodine. I love this guy, George Bodine. If you don't know him, follow him. He's an artist, but he's done all kinds of things. He's worked all kinds of different jobs. He was in the, in the military. He lived that fast paced, nervous life. He's in his 70s now and he's a hardcore bitcoiner. And like most bitcoiners, you don't know exactly how much he has, but it's like you get the sense that like he's doing okay and he's, he's like, good. And that, that's that low time preference culture that bitcoin allows for. So if you just think about that and extrapolate that out, imagine everybody could be like George. Everybody could be painting, relax, have enough money, you know, in the bank or hopefully we're not using banks anymore. But you know, you've got value and you've worked and you can hold that value. What, what starts to happen? Everybody just chills out and like, what would that do for the world? I see a future where we can all be relaxed and all be comfortable and all be able to think beyond like the next day or like how you're going to feed your kids or how you're going to survive. Right? And that opens up a whole world of exploration, curiosity, you know. And I think we'll go into the Second Renaissance, like if we get this right, we'll go into the golden age, we'll go into the Second Renaissance, the second Enlightenment, and you can go back in history. And I write about this in the book as well in Life after Bitcoin, about, you know, Florence, Italy and the Florin. And Stacy Herbert talks about this a lot. She's out there in El Salvador doing amazing things in El Salvador with naive Bukele, the president of El Salvador, which is very pro Bitcoin, part of the world. And it's all about like art, you know, art and science and discovery. Elon has the same kind of outlook. He wants to be a star faring civilization. He wants to go explore the stars, the final frontier. And so yeah it's, it's an exciting prospect, you know. So that's. Yeah. Makes me. [00:53:09] Speaker B: Yeah, that's pretty good. That's pretty good. It's a very hopeful message and I think people sometimes we get stuck in the doom and gloom because we're, we're obsessed with the problem and if you look and start to put your mind towards the solution and even if we don't hit where everybody is doing it, even just if more people are doing it every day, if we're just more and more moving in that direction every day, I feel like that's hopeful and promising and a great place to land this episode. I hope people found value in it. I did. I remember when you were on the first time. Oh there's the book Hive Mind. If you have not. You said it's not going to be available yet. Is there anything I can do for this audience in terms of like we didn't plan this. [00:53:56] Speaker A: Just, just follow me. Like just, just I'm on air so if anyone wants is interested like I'll be putting stuff out for people to get the pre launch version of it. [00:54:04] Speaker B: Okay, cool, cool, cool. [00:54:06] Speaker A: I sent you1 just DM but. But I'll be cool. Yeah, I'll have a site where people can go. [00:54:11] Speaker B: So like follow Jesse on X if you're not already and that's super cool with you and Bram in Prague. That is really. I love how the connections because I make it makes me feel like I'm in the right place. Like the people I'm drawn to and I'm talking to are very much talking to each other conversations. We're evolving the narrative. So yeah, check out Jesse's book when you have the chance. Follow Jesse right now if you want to take some immediate action and we'll see you on the next one. Jesse, stay on everybody else. Stay healthy and wealthy. Bye. Thank you for watching this episode of the Money Adjustment. If you want more like comment and subscribe you can follow me on X at at Mark Kramer until the next episode. Stay healthy and wealthy. That was awesome, man. Yeah. I hope you enjoyed coming on. I was when I was reading at first I gave my wife like the synopsis of the book, the little synopsis of what the book was because she's the fiction reader. She like just reads through them and I get nervous because I'm like oh man. I. It's going to be tough for me and just to see if she could get excited about it. But then as I started to dive in, I was like, wow, this is like, I told you. I DM'd you. And I was like, I could. This is a movie. I could see this. I would go see this movie. Great work with that man. It's very exciting, [00:55:46] Speaker A: Sam.